April 15, 2021

*** This hand was suggested by Ras2829
0-0*  ?
48%
20%
12%
6%
3%
3%
2%
0%
0%
0%
0%
Total votes: 231
james500
3921 votes

Joined: June 2013

 
 
 
Thursday 3:39 AM
Dealer has the advantave. To change this I can either try to speed up and overtake, or sabotgage them so that they slow down. I'll try the latter.
dec
6356 votes

Joined: April 2008

 
 
 
Thursday 3:56 AM
Don't cut a nickel. Eight lead. dec
mfetchCT425
1397 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Thursday 4:02 AM
Going to be on the aggressive side as first pone. I like the 8 lead here.
Rosemarie44
2052 votes

Joined: March 2016

 
 
 
Thursday 4:12 AM
Of course, a jack shows up! Tough decision today. I think we need to hold 4 points with a chance to increase the value of the hand to 8 points .Usually first hand as n/d the strategy is offense.
mrob2199
1433 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Thursday 4:30 AM
As most of you know I don’t play positional cribbage till at least the middle of 2nd street,so I don’t feel any urgency to get to a certain spot on 1st street-I don’t see much upside in keeping 4 points to discard a dangerous 10-J-much better percentage play to throw the innocuous 10-K and hold just 2-there will still be 8 hands to make up that 2 points-and K-K isn’t exactly loaded with potential
Eolus619
1340 votes

Joined: June 2020

 
 
 
Thursday 6:01 AM
well....Colvert’s approach for n/d from the very first hand is the best answer until it isn’t. Goodbye 10-J as dangerous as it is. Took a big gulp after dec & Rob say it isn’t
Eolus619 says: To comment on Rob’s approach about position. I have now played enough to realize how difficult and infrequent it is for games 1st n/d to also have the deck 1st above 18. But if the 1st n/d has not become 1st dealer @ 44+ the path to a win is in increasing jeopardy. And not being 1st to deal @ 70+ is a major issue simply because at that point there is most likely only five hands left to solve the score deficit problem.
Eolus619 says: thinking about what i said about 70+ ..better to have said it is a board position disadvantage problem
Gougie00
5728 votes

Joined: March 2008

 
 
 
Thursday 6:10 AM
I'll toss K-10. 10-J has too much of a chance of going BOOM.

Lead the 8
MiketheExpert
1120 votes

Joined: April 2021

 
 
 
Thursday 6:56 AM
I tossed the 10C KD. This is the safest discard that will score least points for opponent's crib on average. Even though typically you want to start out aggressive, keeping 4 points with the pair of the K's does not justify the much more dangerous throw of 10 J. Not a good pegging hand any way you look at it. Lead the 8 and hope for a face card you can pair in response.
MiketheExpert says: I think the possiblity also of a run with Q and 12 cards same suited as J to cut in itself just about compensates for sacrificing 2 points from the outset even before taking the crib throw into consideration. If I were to decide to keep both K;s instead, then I am leading one of them hoping to triple for 6, which is about the only advantage I can see to holding both K's. This would be an unwise decision to pair K on almost any holding, and too unlikely an outcome in my opinion.
MiketheExpert says: Agreed RAS, you could argue that the best offensive strategy is also the best defensive throw and pegging in this case --- Btw, my 2nd choice would be to discard 7 10, keeping the 8 J K K, which looks to have gotten very few votes. From this holding, I would lead the K first and not the 8.
Ras2829 says: Hi MiketheExpert: You've got it! Am impressed that you have also calculated 7-10 as the second choice. The 10-J is quite off the pace in combined value (pegs, hand score, less crib score) as it gives up nearly 6 points in the crib (5.924).
JCM
910 votes

Joined: April 2019

 
 
 
Thursday 8:19 AM
Am persuaded by those who say it's safer to discard 10-K, even if it costs 2 points.

Yet: Doesn't pone "damn the torpedos" and play for all points he can get, on 1st hand?
Jazzselke
2585 votes

Joined: March 2009

 
 
 
Thursday 9:24 AM
Like yesterday will opt for defense. Our best cut with 78KK only yields us 8 points; so will try to slow up the dealer and hope for the better hands to go our way the rest of the game.
dgergens
938 votes

Joined: January 2018

 
 
 
Thursday 9:39 AM
I'm with mrob. At 0-0, tossing 10,K is worth more than 2 points to me.
Ras2829
5152 votes

Joined: November 2008

 
 
 
Thursday 10:19 AM
If thinking offense, total points gained is valuable consideration. If you choose an offense strategy to include pegging, the 10-K discard wins by a comfortable margin. N/D will not peg many on average with these cards (slightly better than 1 point). Leading the 8 provides the best choice to do that and take any pegs offered. Wouldn't worry about the Jack cut too much as 9/10 most frequent discards are middle cards (7-8, 8-8, 6-7, 6-9, 6-8, and 8-9) or small cards. Those do include the 2-3 and A-4. Then follows 3-4. So you can see only the 2-3 and A-4. So you can waltz through those with the greatest damage of six points. There are no five spot discards in the ten most frequent although the J-Q fills one of those spots. If that were the dealer discard in this case, the crib will score 10-poimnts. Only three of those ten pose a threat in terms of crib score. Even with the Jack on the deck, crib will often score 0-2 points (45.494%). So the choice when looking at the pegs, when looking at the cards, when seeing the starter card is offense. Potential pegs, hand score, less the crib score determine the level of success in choosing offense. That's true even if thinking that 10-K is a defensive toss as that choice provides the greater offense.
Ras2829 says: BTW, don't think that is in conflict with DeLynn Colvert's assertion that n/d of hand one should play choose offense..
Ras2829 says: Sorry I do not like a Jack lead from this hand as it begs for a five spot in response. Then do you advance the count to 25 or drop the 8 for count of 23?
SallyAnn3
908 votes

Joined: March 2020

 
 
 
Thursday 10:48 AM
Alone again....naturally (for thos who rember that song). I went with more cuts to help, and possibly get some pegs. Hate having all face cards that don't do much for my hand
SallyAnn3 says: I am getting all of these "wrong" choices out of my system this week. Going back to club next week, and tournies next month, finally~
dec says: gilbert o sullivan it is alex. Want some internet news you got a new internet leader unofficially Peter Legendre. dec
SallyAnn3 says: time will tell :)
Coeurdelion
5593 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Thursday 3:45 PM
I think it's a choice between the 10-J, 10-K and 7-10 discards.

7-8-K-K: 4pts - 5¾pts (Schell: 5.63) = -1¾pts

7-8-J-K: 2pts - 4pts (Schell: 3.88) = -2pts

8-J-K-K: 2pts - 4¼pts (Schell: 4.31) = -2¼pts

Potential:

7-8-K-K: Improves with 5555, 6666, 777, 888, 9999, KK = 20 cuts = 20/46 = 43.5% up to 7/8pts with all cuts.

7-8-J-K: Improves with 5555, 6666, 777, 888, 9999, JJJ, QQQQ, KK = 27 cuts = 27/46 = 58.7% up to 5/6pts with 5555, 6666, 777, 888, 9999, QQQQ = 22 cuts. Plus 12 hearts for 1pt extra for his nob = 12/46 = 0.26pt.

8-J-K-K: Improves with 5555, 777, 888, JJJ, QQQQ, KK = 19 cuts = 19 cuts = 19/46 = 41.3% up to 6/8pts with 5555, QQQQ = 8 cuts. Plus 12 hearts for 1pt extra for his nob = 12/46 = 0.26pt.

Position:

As we're First Pone at the very start of the game I'll play Offense. Positional hole is at 18pts and I'll try to get as close as possible but it's unlikely that we can reach it with this hand so it may well pay to keep Dealer short on the pegging and in the box.

Pegging:

I think all these hands will peg quite well playing Defense.

Summary:

7-8-K-K has the best starting value by ¼pt and although it does not have the most cuts for improvement it has 20 cuts for 7/8pts. Although it does not have the approximately ¼pt for the nob potential I think it will be best. So I'll throw the 10-J and keep 4pts.
HalscribCLX
5316 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Thursday 4:08 PM
At 0-0* playing an Offense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

_______________Dlr's
Offense___Hand_Pegs__Crib___Total___W9 %____W10 %
7-8-J-KC___4.13+1.26+(-3.86)=1.53____18.2____19.9
8-J-K-K____3.87+1.13+(-4.21)=0.79____16.4____17.6
7-8-K-K____5.57+1.04+(-5.90)=0.71____20.2____18.7

Offense______L9 %____L10 %
7-8-J-KC______35.1____52.3
8-J-K-K_______36.4____54.6
7-8-K-K_______39.7____55.2

7-8-J-KC is best for expected averages and although it is not best for Win %s it is lowest for Loss %s so I'll select 10-KD to discard.

After the J cut I'll lead the J and play Offense:

Lead____________Our Pegging Pts.
J____________________1.45
7____________________1.29
K____________________1.27
8____________________1.22