September 25, 2021

*** This hand was suggested by mfetchct425
0*-0  ?
53%
19%
11%
7%
3%
2%
0%
0%
Total votes: 176
mfetchct425Had this hand at Grass Roots Club which made me think a bit longer. This hand may have been submitted previously on CHOD. Would be a nice feature if we could somehow search the CHOD archives, but maybe not possible. Thanks in advance for your analysis and comments.
dec
6352 votes

Joined: April 2008

 
 
 
Saturday 3:13 AM
Hi Mike , a certain player in your club Dave S. explained to me how this keep could be valuable in all three facets. Ace lead here a few pegging possibilities here. The six could be the bingo cut here. dec
james500
3917 votes

Joined: June 2013

 
 
 
Saturday 3:19 AM
Quite a few options to mull over this morning.

I'll keep both "fives", the real one and the A4 combo, so no 4-5 discard for me. A-9c also has some appeal for the hand it leaves behind.
oc
78 votes

Joined: September 2021

 
 
 
Saturday 4:34 AM
We're out of the gates and there are a couple of interesting tosses to weigh up. To immediately maximize points, we could toss (9 9) leaving us with (A 4 5 6) for the play. We could also throw (A 4) leaving us with a (5 6 9 9) which, on the surface, is worth 1 less with a worse scoring hand but the points we lose in the hand are compensated by the crib. There are even some possible outside options like (A 9) or (4 5), all of which score enough points for us to be comfortable reaching the first positional hole on time.

So what's the best pegging hand? For offence, keeping a 5 and 6 for a magic 11 seems nice and a large card like 9 is good for a defensive jump. Since we see two 9's its less likely to be doubled. So immediately I'm leaning towards the hand (5 6 9 9) for good playablility against hands with a lot of tens. The only thing is that we're a little stuck against 7 leads. The main hands we're fighting against are high scoring pone hands, which, ordinarily would be just shy of the first positional hole after the 6 cut. For example (2 6 7 8) now worth 14 points. But then after the play starting 7-9-8-6, they're pretty much there. Does (A 4 5 6) fare much better here? I think so. In general it's easier to avoid runs with a more spread out hand. If the extremities of our hand are A 6 there's no awkward middle value that pone can lead, which was the case when the extremities were 5 9.

So my pick today to keep (A 4 5 6) because we can defend better against those high scoring pone hands which almost make it to the first positional hole. And we retain a magic 11 for offence to help achieve our averages.
MiketheExpert says: Good comments oc --- The recommended course of play is "defense" on the first hand if you are comfortable to make it to at least hole 8, however I am with you...I'm not against a little aggression on the first hand as dealer given the right cards, and compared to some, I am not afraid of trading a few points if I feel I can widen my advantage further after I already have a "big" score in the bag.
MiketheExpert says: I suspect computer program HAL may opt for the (4 5) toss today, which would seem to best "conform" to the recommended opening strategy, but we'll see...
oc says: Thanks Mike! I do like getting a good start and playing aggressively if it's something I can get away with. It can help to alliviate some bad variance later in the game. I'm curious to see what HAL says too. I'm not too familiar with how the program works but I'm always interested in the numbers :)
JQT
4143 votes

Joined: October 2008

 
 
 
Saturday 4:50 AM
Once again, we start the game as the Dealer and deal ourselves a RUN with a 5 Card in it, so let's look for ways to get that 5 Card in our Crib!

If I could retain an Equal or Similar Hand without the 5 Card, I will usually send that 5 Card where it can do some good, into the Crib.

But today, we must consider Toss (9 9) and Toss (A 4), in addition to Toss (4 5). The decision is not an easy one.

Keep (A 6 9 9) and Toss (4 5) is almost a reflex in me. Most Cuts that help the 4-5-6 Run will also help (A 6 9 9) and (5 6 9 9). Normally, I would Toss (4 5) and move on, and while I don't like stuffing PAIRS like Toss (9 9) in my Crib, what about Toss (A 4)?

Toss (A 4) has caught my eye, but I will still Toss (4 5), as it is just my style, and nobody has chosen it yet as of 6:45a ET. It's a very interesting arrangement of cards!

This morning, let's go back twenty years, which now seems like another era, and listen to Lucinda Williams singing "Blue" (2001) https://youtu.be/D0_AVhvdpgw
Eolus619 says: Ah…Lucinda …the Queen of the Delta juke joints. Her lyrics often contain subject matter that remind me of a line from Dylan..” a lot of water gone under the bridge..a lot of other stuff too” Nice changeup choice today.
Gougie00
5724 votes

Joined: March 2008

 
 
 
Saturday 6:12 AM
I will try 99. Not thrilled about A9 in my crib. Just make sure a 2 isn't the starter.
scottcrib
1630 votes

Joined: August 2019

 
 
 
Saturday 6:32 AM
I'm keeping one of the very best pegging hands as dealer without breaking up the run. Bingo cut today!
wasa
3013 votes

Joined: November 2014

 
 
 
Saturday 6:33 AM
Keeping the run. A-9 not great for my crib, but it gets 3 cards to help it. Nice cut.
MiketheExpert
1116 votes

Joined: April 2021

 
 
 
Saturday 6:37 AM
This is one of thos hands, that depending on how am I feeling on that particular day, I may choose something different on the first hand of the game. Today I opted to toss the pair of 9's, as I felt like keeping my 4-5-6 run intact, magic 11 and double-5 combo, at the cost perhaps of "some" safety on the pegging, as I'd probably have to pair a "4" opening lead...If I was feeling ultra-defensive, I may toss (4 5), with a good crib throw, but I am not enthralled with the prospects for hand improvement, or the lone ace, but may work quite well against a mid-card lead by pone. Or even (A 4), which is a more moderate option, keeping 6 pts and quite decent chances for improvement, but a bit weaker crib throw, and not a "great" defensive hand for pegging....So, depending on my opponent and my mood, I think ALL 3 of these options could be something I would choose to do on the very first hand....
MiketheExpert says: With the 6 cut today on CHOD, I am quite satisfied with my choice...:)
Eolus619
1336 votes

Joined: June 2020

 
 
 
Saturday 7:21 AM
Good puzzle Mike! Three legit options. After playing some and reading some I have come to the following conclusion for myself. If sending a five to my own crib doesn’t blow up my keep, I want to try to do it for, to quote Gougie00, pin action. JQT is also a fan of sending fives. Ace-4 just has too many cut misses when compared to other options. Crib is an extension of hand ..thus only a deuce and seven don’t help me. And…Pone has a tendency to throw a Q or K as part of discard since it often yields low scoring cribs for dealer. Five to own crib takes advantage of that. I see I have landed in JQT’s camp. Apparently CHOD can make strange cribbage bed fellows!
fentesk
1197 votes

Joined: January 2021

 
 
 
Saturday 7:56 AM
Splitting points between hand and crib to reduce variance today as I'll follow the goal of defense as first dealer. I think A-6-9-9 will peg more defensively than my next choice 5-6-9-9. I'm not a big fan of larger pairs in my crib, they strike out too often for my liking.

With the cut I'm guaranteed to be sitting at 18+ after this hand no matter what opponent tossed to my crib. I'll stick to my defense plan and hope pone tossed my something like K-9 or K-10 today.
Fender Bass
373 votes

Joined: July 2021

 
 
 
Saturday 11:43 AM
Fender Bass says: Just seemed like A/4 was a better toss into my own crib than 9/9. Don't like to bust up a run, especially 4/5/6 but this also gave me the 5/6 for pegging against an X card lead.
Coeurdelion
5589 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Saturday 3:50 PM
As First Dealer I'll play Defense. Positional hole is 8pts but I'll try to score the average 16pts or more.

Pegging:

Playing Defense I think 5-6-9-9 will peg well but A-4-5-6 should score well and also peg Defensively.

Summary:

5-6-9-9 is better for starting value by 1pt but A-4-5-6 has more cuts for improvement and 31 for 9-14pts compared to 15 cuts for 9-12pts with 5-6-9-9. Also I think A-4-5-6 should peg better. So I'll throw 9-9 into my crib.
HalscribCLX
5312 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Saturday 3:59 PM
At 0*-0 playing a Defense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

________________Pone's
Defense___Hand__Pegs___Crib_Total____W9 %____W10 %
5-6-9-9____8.33+(-2.11)+5.43=11.65____40.9____53.3
A-4-5-6____8.85+(-2.11)+4.86=11.60____42.4____52.0
A-6-9-9____7.22+(-1.98)+6.35=11.59____39.8____53.1

Defense_______L9 %____L10 %
5-6-9-9________26.6____22.0
A-4-5-6________30.0____23.8
A-6-9-9________25.2____21.7

5-6-9-9 is best for expected averages by 0.05pt and although A-4-5-6 is very slightly best for Win %s 5-6-9-9 is much better than A-4-5-6 for Loss %s and only sightly worse than A-6-9-9 for Loss %s. So I'll select A-4 to discard.

After the 6 cut I'll play Defense to the lead.
MiketheExpert says: Looking at how "close" the scores are for all 3 of the options, I would still venture that any one of these 3 choices are quite acceptable and the best one may very well be dependent on "recognizing your opponent", their tendencies, and how comfortable you are with a particular style of play.
JQT says: Yes, I agree with MiketheExpert (above), and I've often said it here in these pages, that when we have such close discard choices, as long as we picked any one of them, it will probably then be the pegging that affects the game much more than this particular discard choice. Let's look at the difference between the top three choices: we see that it involves a minuscule 0.06 points, and while the win/loss percentages have a higher variance, these are also not correlated with the highest totals, nor do they convey much information at the initial position, since Dealer begins with a win rate of circa 56% before the cards are even dealt or looked at! To put it another way: trying to see the win/loss rate accurately ten deals ahead is like measuring the change in the flow of a stream and trying to guess the weight of a deer wading in the current fifty meters upstream! (Believe it or not, these are the kinds of physics that advanced weapons' labs are working on with powerful computers and big data and who knows, maybe even quantum algorithms!) Anyway, if we can gain 0.06 points as the Dealer and do it seventeen times, it will net us One Point. Since an average game is Nine Deals, and we are Dealer half the time, we can at best add this illustrious One Point to our ledger if we perform such a task (and do it correctly every time) over the course of two complete games! Meanwhile, if we make a routine error while pegging, and give up a PAIR instead of getting said PAIR, this costs us a whopping 'swing' of Four Points!! And this is just one of many such possible pegging errors that can and often does occur during EVERY DEAL. For example, in one of the annotated games in "Play Winning Cribbage," DeLynn Colvert advises that the Dealer with 5-6 should 'Play Off' on Pone's "X" Card Lead and play the 6 Card, and then if Pone plays another "X" only then do we collect the Two Points with our 5 Card with (31=2). This tends to avoid the frequent comeback by Pone in PAIRING our 5 Card if we grab the early (15=2), and of course this is all in keeping with Colvert's "Twenty-Six Theory" of playing Positional Cribbage. DeLynn figured, since we already have the Dealer Advantage, why squander it by allowing Pone to easily parry us when it's entirely preventable at this early juncture? And whether a player agrees or disagrees with this particular adaptation or implementation of this well-known theory, it should be clear that time spent here, on the aspects of these types of nuances during the pegging, is where we can really find ways to improve our game.