March 17, 2017

*** This hand was suggested by ras2829
0*-0  ?
Total votes: 207

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3639 votes

Joined: April 2008

Friday 3:03 AM
Four point sacrafice here . Play the middle cards in the pegging leave low cards till the end. dec
174 votes

Joined: November 2016

Friday 3:13 AM
5-5 is too cool to hang out with that crew in the hand. Send the prodigal son to the crib to explore.
493 votes

Joined: March 2016

Friday 4:12 AM
I chose toss 5-6. But this submission from Ras had me going back and forth--this one, no this one.....Even today I am not sure.
2019 votes

Joined: February 2011

Friday 5:00 AM
Not being dealt any X cards sealed the deal for me.
2041 votes

Joined: October 2008

Friday 5:01 AM
Top o' the Irish mornin' ... Too bad we cannot 'WISH' that Ace of Clubs to be an Ace of Spades...

Since not, we'll have to settle for the reality of trying to decide if breaking up the (2 5 5 8) hand is justified by our Sacrifice Limits. Meanwhile, busting up the (5 5 6) could be our largest 'cost' today.

Toss (5 5) is The King of Dealer Discards, and it not only produces a nearly nine-point Crib Average, but also allows a Sacrificial Limit of up to FOUR POINTS!

Meanwhile, if we Keep (A 2 6 8), we're still holding onto Two Points in a hand that should peg as well or better, as opposed to Keep (2 5 5 8), a 6-point Hand which may not fare quite as well.

Even if we call the pegging as 'even,' Toss (5 5) is apparently only 'costing' us Four Points while it promises to generate over TWICE that much in our Crib, and it does fall in nicely right within those aforementioned Sacrificial Limits. Therefore, Toss (5 5), Drink Irish Whisky (and Green Beer), and Let It Go!
95 votes

Joined: March 2017

Friday 5:14 AM
One of perhaps only 3 votes so far splitting the 5s, I was reluctant to send both 5s to the crib in case an X didn't find it's way there. Split allows all cuts to add value to hand. I feel the same way Rosemarie44 does- "this one- no this one". Good puzzle.
3178 votes

Joined: March 2008

Friday 5:16 AM
Without being dealt a face card, I'll toss 55 in my crib. Go ahead an toss me a 10-K.
229 votes

Joined: February 2009

Friday 5:56 AM
5-5 is strongest discard to own crib and A-2-6-8 has a 3-card magic 11 for what should be a good pegging hand as dealer. All cuts help this hand except the X-pointers, but alas, we would be delighted to see one as it would guarantee at least 6 points in crib.
2315 votes

Joined: April 2011

Friday 6:35 AM
I think RAS wants the 5's in the crib but that's cutting my hand down to just two points. Not for me. A-6 is a decent discard.
1445 votes

Joined: June 2013

Friday 7:00 AM
- Strong discard that's within sacrifice limit.
- Every cut from Ace to 9 improves the hand, Xs help the crib.
- Three card 11 (8-2-A) and, probably not as useful today with fewer fives in circulation, a three card 16 (8-6-2) also.
1026 votes

Joined: March 2009

Friday 7:07 AM
In Massachusetts you are supposed to raise your hand when throwing two fives in your crib.
2292 votes

Joined: October 2007

Friday 7:14 AM
Many cards help the hand. Let the 5.s do as they will, we have at least 2 points.
753 votes

Joined: September 2014

Friday 9:11 AM
Tough choice. Considered toss A-6, 5-5, and 5-6. Settled on the way I've more traditionally played it just to ensure my lesson is learned when the stats are revealed!
190 votes

Joined: November 2016

Friday 9:43 AM
I couldn't resist. I sent the pair of 5s to the crib.
271 votes

Joined: July 2016

Friday 11:28 AM
I couldn't resist either. Hey PBatterson, can you see my hand? I mean the one attached to my wrist; not my cards. I'm hoping this is another one of the 5% exceptions to The Big Hand Rule; as we cannot honestly answer "Yes", to both those by now very familiar questions. We have the A-2-8 three card eleven for defensive pegging. Why not go for it in the crib? The A-2-5-8(5-6) has that same great three card eleven, but its expected average is almost 1.75 points lower, so it's bye-bye 5's for me.

Now somebody direct me to the Baker City Elk's Club.
Andy (muesli64)
1250 votes

Joined: August 2009

Friday 12:12 PM
Throw the 5-5/. Must be the reason RAS put this puzzle in!
2672 votes

Joined: November 2008

Friday 2:43 PM
Based on my accumulated empirical data, there are 9 of 91 discard combinations which are worth a sacrifice of points in hand when dealing. The Big Hand Rule does not apply here although the sacrifice limits defined therein can be applied to this hand. The 5-5 to own crib averages 8.876 (500) 1/91, scores two points 2.4%, score 8 or more 60.2%, and tallies 12 or more 20.8%. Nothing comes close to those figures. Note that the 5-5 is 40 times as likely to produce 8 or more than to score a mere two points in crib. In 500 instances of discarding 5-5 to own crib, only 12 resulted in two points (2.4%). Yet a common lament I hear is "when I toss 5-5 to my crib, it only scores two points." Don't believe that. Your mind is playing tricks on you. If dealing, look for hands where 5-5 in hand offers only six points. Can you retain two points and put the 5-5 to own crib? It is such a strong discard as folks will often toss two X-point cards (10-K, 10-Q, Q-K, and other X-point combos less frequently). Those X-point cards often are not of value in non-dealer hand and allow the retention of the better pegging cards as well. A lot of folks love the 7-8 discard when dealing; yet seldom will opponent toss two middle cards. They work pretty well if the starter card is a middle card. The 5-5 discard often scores 10-12 with no help from the starter card. Try it: you'll like it! If you would like to know more about sacrifice limits when dealing, Email
3156 votes

Joined: October 2007

Friday 2:58 PM
I think its the choice between the 6pts with 2-5-5-8 (A-6) and A-2-6-8 (5-5):

2-5-5-8: 6pts + 3ūpts (Schell: 3.85) = 9ūpts

A-2-6-8: 2pts + 8ūpts (Schell: 8.79) = 10ūpts


2-5-5-8: Improves with 222, 3333, 55, 7777, 888 + 16xXs = 32 cuts = 32/46 = 69.6% up to 10/12/14pts with 222, 55, 888 + 16xXs = 24 cuts.

A-2-6-8: Improves with AAA, 222, 3333, 4444, 55, 666, 7777, 888, 9999 = 30 cuts = 30 cuts = 30/46 = 65.2% up to 6/8/9pts with AAA, 666, 7777, 888 = 13 cuts.


Whether playing Defense or Offense I think A-2-6-8 will peg better with more low cards and a 3-card magic eleven.


At game start as Dealer we'll be pegging Defensively.


A-2-6-8 has the better starting value by 1pt and although the number of cuts for improvement is lower and the maximum value much lower it does have 13 cuts for 6-9pts which is a tremendous increase from 2pts. Ras's sacrifice rules I believe allow for a 4pt sacrifice in order to throw 5-5 so this fits within that. For all these reasons I'll throw the 5-5.
2901 votes

Joined: February 2008

Friday 3:27 PM
At 0*-0 playing a Defense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

Defense___Hand__Pegs___Crib_Total____W9 %____W10 %

Defense_______L9 %____L10 %

A-2-6-8 is better for expected averages by 1.07pt and is slightly better for Win %s although sightly worse for Loss %s. So I'll select the 5-5 to discard.

After the Q cut I'll play Defense to the lead.