December 6, 2017

*** This hand was suggested by james500
76*-82  ?
84%
11%
3%
0%
0%
Total votes: 165
Rosemarie44
2052 votes

Joined: March 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:11 AM
Playing our position first, the next par hole is 96 and I am short by 20 points. Pone at 82 needs only 14 points to reach this position. Choosing offense - get on down the board.
This hand has an advantage over tossing 2-3 with combined average of 8.10 exp. avg. hand and crib value 5.87 (13.97) points vs. exp. avg. hand of 6.00 and crib value 7.14 (13.14) points, respectively.
dec
6358 votes

Joined: April 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 3:19 AM
Offense. Important decision on how to peg on lead card do I count on crib to add and play defense on the pegging? dec
Andy (muesli64)
2223 votes

Joined: August 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:09 AM
7 - 7 is substantially the best. Position is not ideal but not that bad either.
james500
3924 votes

Joined: June 2013

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:20 AM
Fortunately, due to some deletions by Ras, I've managed to get a puzzle in featuring these position holes, fairly soon after Spin's (if I remember correctly), query about them.

I suspect this arrangement of cards may be an exception to the rules on sacrifice limits, but:

a. I've only sacrificed one point in hand to discard 2-3, holding four points rather than the five I would've had with A-2-3-9. A two point sacrifice is permitted to discard 2-3.

b. There's still a chance that the cut will improve my hand score to 12+, with cuts of a seven or eight doing so.

The flush will improve on all cuts, but to my mind, is a red herring.
Gougie00 says: The flush is interesting if we are the pone.
BigFoot Bob
624 votes

Joined: April 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 4:29 AM
Keeping the small run and the nine that worked well with it. The seven are the third best pair to ones crib you can throw.
Gougie00
5731 votes

Joined: March 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:49 AM
What your preference 23 or 77? I'll toss myself the 77 and pray for help.

Ras likes to mention that 88 in your own crib is usually 2 points. The pone doesnt help. I would imagine 77 does do that much better, because the pone wont give me any help.

I would have been happy to reach hole 90. With the cut, I'll go for hole 95. It becomes tricky, because I would like to keep my pone on the other side of the skunk line, which might be difficult if he has low cards as well.
Gougie00 says: 77 doesnt do ... ugh ... and I'm guessing a pair of Queens usually nets more points than 77.
Jazzselke says: 77 better than 88 because you get help from the Ace.
Gougie00 says: A batting practice fastball could be a strikeout if the batter is expecting a curve. Hoping the pone tried to sneak something
Coeurdelion says: I think you might be exaggerating or remembering some poor cribs? 7-7 vs Q-Q is according to Hessel: 5.98pts vs 4.66pts, Ras: 5.87pts vs 4.93pts and Schell: 5.92pts vs 4.79pts. Quite a difference?
Gougie00 says: Versus who though? My opponents are wise to me.
Jazzselke
2586 votes

Joined: March 2009

 
 
 
Wednesday 5:53 AM
Good puzzle. My first inclination was A239, and it may be the best keep, but it is hard to pass up the 23 in the crib. Even though 77 is the second best pair for your crib. I agree in this case the flush is a red herring. A7 not a good throw if you are holding onto another 7.
glmccuskey
4101 votes

Joined: April 2011

 
 
 
Wednesday 7:10 AM
Lots of cuts for at least 7 points with good peggers. I like it this way.
cribbagepogo
3251 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Wednesday 7:31 AM
Potential is my view. 3/2 in crib good for me. Cut an 8, good for me.
spin121
299 votes

Joined: March 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 7:49 AM
A bit better than average cards for me it looks like. With these cards and that 2 cut playing defense is an easy choice for me but I'll be very interested to see what opponent lays down for a lead card. 3 holes isn't much and that is how short pone is here. Job one for me is to do everything I can within reason to keep pone short. Job 2 is to try to go out as Dealer 2 deals from now. If I get to job 3 it's probably a pegging war and opponent has dealer advantage there.
spin121 says: Just for the record and most already know this but not only is pone 3 holes short, dealer is 3 holes short as well. This scenario is the exact same position I brought up the other day to show that first person to deal from OR beyond critical position zone (note dealer is beyond cpz at 76) is not always winning. Using 26 pts for 2 deals average pone IS winning in this position but by the slimmest of margins. It may not be the case today due to our hand being a bit stronger than average. It doesn't take much to sway the advantage one way or the other in this position.
Inushtuk1
1487 votes

Joined: July 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 7:55 AM
My strategy is optimal. My surplus, and my opponent’s deficit are similar. But it makes no difference with these six cards. I will always play it this way. The expected average is so much better. The hand pegs well offensively *and* defensively.

Switching to defense after that sweet cut. I know I’ll be at least at hole 91, and my minimum target was 86. Remember what we discussed last Wednesday. At this score, playing out the 26 Theory, both parties would stand at 118-118* after three deals. Our opponent would be dealing and have the pegging advantage, and peg out before our first hand show. We must keep her/him as short as possible here. No pairing for me obviously. I won’t even take the (15-2) on a 6 lead, although that might not be *too* bad a play. I’ll dump my lone Ace there. On the 9 lead I will show Pone my 3, hoping they don’t have a 3-6-9 combo; and more likely 2-4-9. But the 9 lead often comes from the same hand I hold, or 2-3-4-9. So there may be no way to avoid giving up a score if Pone leads a 9.
Inushtuk1 says: When I started typing my comments, spin had not yet posted. Basically I’m just reiterating what he said. He’s just not as long-winded as I am. ; - )
spin121 says: Hi Inushtuk1, I know I'm on late for this but just have to ask you, what is your line of thinking when you say your minimum target is 86 after this deal. That doesn't seem right to me because I think you should be more greedy than that. To my way of thinking we want to hit at least 95 here. At hole 95 we have a 50 percent chance of going out 2 deals from now as dealer and the odds go up about ten percent per pt from there. Of course if we get too greedy then opponent goes out 2 deals from now as pone with first count and maybe that's what you are worried about with your 86 goal after this deal...
smugly
387 votes

Joined: August 2016

 
 
 
Wednesday 9:47 AM
Actually, a bit surprised that toss 2-3 didn't garner more votes -- Perhaps, I considered it too long, before choosing the 7s.
JQT
4143 votes

Joined: October 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 11:22 AM
Toss (2 3) has a Crib Value of nearly 7 Points, while Toss (7 7) falls a few points behind, and nothing will ever change that.

However, as the Dealer, when we look at potential growth for both Hand and Crib, we must compare the beauty of Toss (2 3) in the Crib against the dissolution of the A-2-3 RUN in our Hand.

Now it's not so easy a decision, because the A-2-3 RUN has enormous potential for growth as well.

When we examine specific helpful or unhelpful Cuts, it's often wise to determine whether these may still help or not regardless of how we split the hand. As an example: if we Keep (A 7 7 9), only either a 7 Card or an 8 Card make an appreciable difference as opposed to if we were instead to discard the two 7 Cards.

But we can find at least twice as many more examples in which Cuts may boost Keep (A 2 3 9), Cuts such as AAA, 222, 333, 999 for example, and such Cuts are unlikely to help as much if we Toss (2 3).

It's close, and I have said that as Dealer, Toss (2 3) seldom *doesn't* work well for us, but I'm going to 'ditch' those two 7 Cards today. Either way, we're probably still in the hunt for Victory, but I think the A-2-3 RUN gives us the best hope today.

Oh, was there a FLUSH option, too?! (At least I'm no longer seeing four Deuces of Clubs show up ; - )
Coeurdelion
5595 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Wednesday 12:22 PM
I think its between A-2-3-9 (7-7) and A-7-7-9 (2-3) although I favor A-2-3-9. I agree with james500 that the flush is a red herring but I'll examine it anyway:

A-2-3-9: 5pts + 5¾pts (Schell: 5.92) = 10¾pts

A-7-7-9: 4pts + 6¾pts (Schell: 7.00) = 10¾pts

2-3-7-9: 4pts + 3¾pts (Schell: 3.85) = 7¾pts

Potential:

A-2-3-9: Improves with AAA, 222, 333, 4444, 5555, 6666, 999 + 16xXs = 40 cuts = 87.0% up to 8/12/14pts with AAA, 222, 333, 4444 = 13 cuts.

A-7-7-9: Improves with AAA, 5555, 6666, 77, 8888, 999 = 20 cuts = 20/46 = 43.5% up to 8/12/14pts with AAA, 77, 8888 = 9 cuts.

2-3-7-9: Improves with AAA, 222, 333, 4444, 5555, 6666, 77, 8888, 999 + 16xXs = 46 cuts = 46/46 = 100.0% up to 8/9/10pts with AAA, 333, 4444, 6666, 8888 = 18 cuts. Plus 9 diamonds for an extra 1pt for the flush = 9/46 = 0.20pt.

Pegging:

I think both A-2-3-9 and 2-3-7-9 will peg well. Perhaps A-2-3-9 best but the flush will be harder to read.

Position:

We're already past 3rd street CPZ and Pone needs 14pts to reach 96pts so I'll play cautiously for the pegging.

Summary:

Although the flush has the most cuts for improvement it has a much lower maximum and it starts with 3pts less so I think we can excluse this. A-2-3-9 has twice as many cuts for improvement as A-7-7-9 and more cuts for 8-14pts. So certainly I think A-2-3-9 is better and I'll throw 7-7.
HalscribCLX
5318 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 12:41 PM
At 76*-82 playing an Optimal strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

_______________Net
Optimal___Hand_Pegs_Crib_Total____W3 %____W4 %
A-2-3-9___8.07+1.57+5.76=15.39____34.3____50.4
A-7-7-9___5.96+0.30+6.87=13.14____27.3____49.5
2-3-7-9___7.35+1.28+3.59=12.22____20.5____40.3

Optimal_______L3 %____L4 %
A-2-3-9_______35.0____35.2
A-7-7-9_______29.8____36.7
2-3-7-9_______36.4____47.9

A-2-3-9 is best for expected averages by 1.25pt and is significantly best for Win %s and although A-7-7-9 is much lower for Loss %s I'll select 7-7 to discard.

After the 2 cut I'll play Defense to the lead.
Gougie00 says: for the first time in a long while, there is about a 50-50 chance for the most popular answers.
Guest says: Where can I get the full halscrib?
Guest says: If you're looking at the approx. 50% chances of winning in deal 4 the difference in deal 3 is 7%. Also the difference in expected averages is huge at 2.25pts. Its not at all close!
HalscribCLX
5318 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 1:17 PM
This is the post for yesterday's puzzle if anyone is interested. Apologies for inept human operator:

At 0*-0 playing A Defense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

________________Pone's
Defense___Hand__Pegs___Crib_Total___W9 %____W10 %
3-6-6-10__5.43+(-1.98)+5.33=8.78____32.1____46.6
A-3-4-10__4.87+(-2.04)+5.66=8.49____32.6____45.1
3-4-6-6___6.91+(-1.93)+3.24=8.22____31.5____44.4

Defense______L9 %____L10 %
3-6-6-10_____24.9____26.6
A-3-4-10_____27.8____28.9
3-4-6-6______26.6____28.9

3-6-6-10 is 0.29pt best for expected averages and is slightly best for Win %s and loss %s which both take account of the board position. So I'll select A-4 to discard.

After the J cut I'll play Defense to the lead.

Ras2829
5155 votes

Joined: November 2008

 
 
 
Wednesday 1:56 PM
Think HalscribCLX has it just right today playing optimal, optimal, and defense. Just go with the flow on this hand; looks like ought to hold A-2-3-9 and toss 7-7. So be it. After seeing the deuce on the deck, knowing that RAS has a guaranteed peg, 12 points in hand, and a known two points in crib, will attempt to minimize opponent movement down the board by playing off. If no pegs except for that dealer peg, will be at hole 91. Coeurdelion shows the averages for 7-7 from several sources. Good stuff! Comparing the 7-7 with 8-8 to own crib, Hypothetically as those choices don't exist here today, the 7-7 5.783 (1.372) 13/91 scores two points 22.011%, scores 3-7 34.914% , tallies 8-11 27.259%, and reaches 12 or more 15.816%. The 8-8 5.496 (1,501) 20/91 scores 2 points 30.313%, scores 3-7 35.91%, tallies 8-11 21.452%, and reaches 12 or more 12.325%. The 7-7 has the edge because the Ace does make 15-2 as pointed out by Jazzselke above and 8-K, 8-Q, or 8-J are rather frequent discards while many folks avoid the 7 with any card to dealer crib. Thoughts?