January 12, 2018

*** This hand was suggested by jqt
83-114*  ?
50%
24%
13%
4%
1%
1%
1%
1%
0%
0%
0%
0%
Total votes: 157
BigFoot Bob
624 votes

Joined: April 2016

 
 
 
Friday 3:07 AM
I am going to make the dealer work for it.
Rosemarie44
2052 votes

Joined: March 2016

 
 
 
Friday 3:09 AM
Looked at tossing 3-7 and 9-9. Both hands are weighted (26 cards) at 4 or 6 points while we are needing 8 points to avoid a skunk. After the cut of a king we need to peg 2 points. This hand is more offensive and has 17 cuts vs 16 cuts that improve the value of the hand to an expected 8 points. Looks like we can try to avoid a skunk but lose the game.
dec
6359 votes

Joined: April 2008

 
 
 
Friday 3:25 AM
Anything goes at this point. dec
JQT
4143 votes

Joined: October 2008

 
 
 
Friday 4:10 AM
Games in which one player struggles to reach beyond Hole 90 can seem boring, and be like a real "blowout" to many newer players, but they often soon learn that reaching Hole 91 can be the most important (and costly) games they shall ever play.

If you enjoy playing Cribbage for stakes in which a SKUNK gives you an additional number of points or cash (often players agree it is DOUBLE), then that gap between Hole 90 and Hole 91 suddenly becomes the most important place on the board!

For example, let's say you agree to play for stakes of $25.00 per game, and $2.00 per point, and DOUBLE for SKUNKS. This means, if you lose at (120-121), or by One Point, it means you would lose $25.00 (for the loss of the Game Itself) plus $2.00 (for the loss of the One Point) or you would owe $27.00 for that loss.

This stays linear right up to (91-121), where you have lost by Thirty Points, which means you would lose $25.00 (for the loss of the Game Itself) plus $2.00 times 30 equals $60.00 (for the loss of the Thirty Points) or you would owe $85.00 for that loss.

But now: what happens if you lose by an Additional Point (90-121), where you have lost by Thirty-One Points? This means you would lose $25.00 (for the loss of the Game Itself) plus $2.00 times 31 equals $62.00 (for the loss of the Thirty Points) or $87.00, but now, this all gets DOUBLED because it was a SKUNK, and therefore you would owe $174.00 for that loss!

This step-function for SKUNKS is even more pronounced when you agree to play for stakes in which a SKUNK equals the Win (or Loss) of TWO GAMES: thus, if you play "best of three" and lose the first two games by thirty or fewer points, all it takes is ONE SKUNK victory to entirely 'equal the playing field'!

Therefore, whether you play stakes for money or merely for game points, attaining Hole 91, or preventing your Opponent from attaining Hole 91, is very often the most crucial (and expensive) piece of "real estate" on the Cribbage Board! Learn to fight for it!
spin121 says: I like it!
Guest says: I like it, too. But what of poor Hal? Has this come up before -- only calculating efficacy of avoiding a skunk? Guess he needs to reset the pegs at 113 - 114* and run from there? Leaving it to us to add back in the holes removed after the fact when "settling up" on our wager and, if we wish, to then gauge EV of the various options? Guess I'll see soon enough!
Coeurdelion says: Cribbage Prof (Rex, Halscrib) has more weapons in its armoury than you think! 8-)
JQT says: Yes, indeed, I am quite certain that I shall not live long enough to make use of the plethora of features embedded within Halscrib! It does in fact calculate SKUNK aversion statistics, and it optionally incorporates 'muggins' ... and it even has an available Voice Activated 'VOX' feature, which I happily spent the better part of a year of my life tinkering with and enjoying immensely! Not to worry, is "has our backs" today!
Guest says: You gentlemen were indeed correct! I'm a doubter no longer. Also a lucky guy whose answer aligned with Hal's. That does not happen every time.
Gougie00
5731 votes

Joined: March 2008

 
 
 
Friday 4:45 AM
Do I really have any chance to win? Am I really obligated to cross the skunk for the sake of all the other players in the room? My answer is no and no. I kept the 99J to hope for a 10 cut. Lead a 9.
spin121
299 votes

Joined: March 2016

 
 
 
Friday 4:57 AM
I hold four different ranks of cards so should be more pegging power. A few cuts get me within 1 and a few more within 2 of going over line. Have 6 now I'll lead my Jack!!
Inushtuk1
1488 votes

Joined: July 2016

 
 
 
Friday 6:41 AM
I’ll keep all 4 of my key connectors. I don’t know if this is best for the most cuts to improve to within one or not. But it makes sense to me. I’ll lead my 3. Dealer is not likely to play a 5 on my J lead. But s/he may dump a 5 or a lone J early.
Guest says: Hi Inushtuk1 there is slight possibility opponent dumps a 2 on J lead too. But you could be right about not playing a 5 as long as they are even aware of the skunk poss.
Guest says: spin
JRCeagle78
1054 votes

Joined: June 2016

 
 
 
Friday 7:24 AM
Keeping the 9-9 may make you feel better, but I see no advantage in holding on to them. I still have 4 points before the cut. More cuts will increase the hand without the 9's. Ironically the only cuts that do not help this hand are AAAA,99.

The King brings the hand up to 6 points. I'll lead the 3 and hope for the best.
james500
3924 votes

Joined: June 2013

 
 
 
Friday 7:49 AM
Reasonable chance to score eight points since cuts of 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and X all improve my hand score.
wasa
3019 votes

Joined: November 2014

 
 
 
Friday 8:35 AM
I need 8 points. Tossing 3-7 means a cut of AAAA5556666TTTTJJJ = 18 cuts gives it to me. Tossing 99 means a cut of 3334H5556H777 = 11 cuts gives it to me (4 heart, 6 heart). Anything else I need to peg...
Guest says: I got 8 cuts gives me 7 points (4444, 6666) and 9 cuts gives me 8 points (333, 777, JJJ). Rosemarie44 total of 17 cuts.
Guest says: Also add in 3 cuts that gives me 10 points (555) Rosemarie
Guest says: Food for Thought: Should we assume we'll peg nothing, when Two Points is the AVERAGE...
Guest says: Good point, guest. I have learned not to assume. All we can do is our best under this and all circumstances. Rosemarie44
Ras2829
5155 votes

Joined: November 2008

 
 
 
Friday 10:48 AM
RAS hardly ever plays to get out of a skunk. Play for the win! Does that seem possible here? I need 38 points to win and dealer needs 7 with first count on the next deal. If dealer had one of those "south African bishop" hands (Tu-Tu)with the guaranteed peg would need only two on the next deal with first count. So it's avoid the skunk or reduce the number of minus points on spread. Not a good place to be. Given that and knowing that I have six points after seeing the starter card, will lead the Jack and keep the gappers (3-5 and 5-7) intact. Non-dealer average pegs are a total of two and dealer will be playing off our opening lead. So it's off., off., off., for me. Play BOLD and lose BIG!!
Coeurdelion
5595 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Friday 3:06 PM
We need 8pts or 7pts + 1pt (or 6pts + 2pts, etc.) to avoid the skunk. I believe we need to start with 4pts:

3-5-7-J: Improves to 7/8+pts with 333, 4444, 555, 6666, 777, JJJ = 20 cuts.

5-9-9-J: Improves with AAAA, 555, 6666, 99, 10101010, JJJ = 20 cuts.

With 5-9-9-J all 20 cuts are for 8pts or more so I'll throw the 3-7.
HalscribCLX
5318 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Friday 3:56 PM
At 83-114* aiming to avoid the skunk I'll play Offense. The Chances of Getting Over the Skunk Line are:

Offense__________Over %
3-5-7-J__________76.5
5-9-9-J__________62.5
5-7-9-J__________49.7
3-5-9-J__________47.4

3-5-7-J has the best chance of avoiding the skunk so I'll select 9-9 to discard.

After the K cut I'll lead the 3 and play Offense:

Lead___________Loss %
3_______________95.7
7_______________97.1
5_______________97.5
J_______________97.6
JQT
4143 votes

Joined: October 2008

 
 
 
Friday 4:01 PM
(83-114*) (3c 5h 7c 9s 9h Jh)

January 12, 2018 - jqt -

Just as we saw about a week and a day ago on Jan 4, 2018, we don't exactly require the MOST points today.

Rather, we require EIGHT POINTS ... to avert a SKUNK.

There may be a difference between EIGHT and THE MOST, as we saw last week. With any of the top hand choices today, we begin with only up to Four Points, so we require another Four MORE Points to avert the SKUNK.

As I said on Jan 4, 2018, I am an advocate of "mapping out" these particular kinds of hands, in order to develop a sense for how cards might work together. Of course, with the Dealer at Hole 114, when trying to avert the SKUNK, we should probably not concern ourselves at all with any dangers of what we discard today.

The most popular choice (below) of Keep (5 9 9 J) and Toss (3 7) does not actually produce the highest Expected Average today, and 'chimes in' at 6.65 Points, but is exceeded slightly by Keep (3 5 7 J) and Toss (9 9), which shall average 6.78 Points, and finally, Keep (3 5 7 9) and Toss (9 J), should generate an Expected Average of 4.96 Points.

The Jack is definitely the most mysterious card in Cribbage, and it is almost 'creepy' how that single extra point for "Nobs" can 'skew' the expectations and thus our results.

And so now, let's look deeper, and let's especially focus upon at those numbers of Cuts that will produce anywhere from 5 Points up to 8 Points or more, and thus would require us to peg respectively: Three Holes, or Two Holes, or One Hole, or NONE AT ALL. We should recall that as Pone, we shall usually peg approximately 2.1 Holes, although in this scenario, the Dealer might be doing everything in his or her power to reduce this!

Keep (5 9 9 J) and Toss (3 7) has 20 Cuts that produce 8 or more points, and has 22 Cuts that produce 7 points, and has 28 Cuts that produce 6 points, and has 33 Cuts that produce 5 points.

Keep (3 5 7 J) and Toss (9 9) has 14 Cuts that produce 8 or more points, and has 25 Cuts that produce 7 points, and has 40 Cuts that produce 6 points, and has 41 Cuts that produce 5 points.

Keep (3 5 7 9) and Toss (9 J) has 3 Cuts that produce 8 or more points, and has 11 Cuts that produce 7 points, and has 17 Cuts that produce 6 points, and has 21 Cuts that produce 5 points.

So if we assume ZERO pegging, Toss (3 7) does seem like the better choice. But is this a valid assumption to make, when we know that Pone averages to peg about 2.1 holes? Let's instead look carefully at the odds if we can peg One or Two Holes today:

Suddenly, this gives Keep (3 5 7 J) and Toss (9 9) between about a 43% greater chance of reaching 6 Points, and about a 14% greater chance of reaching 7 Points, which would of course then require that we peg either Two Points, or One Point, respectively.

It's often a "Special Case" like this in a close Cribbage Scenario, when we don't need the MOST points, we need a SPECIFIC NUMBER of points! You'll likely never be able to calculate such an intricate series of possible Cuts 'over the board,' but just by looking at a number of such hand mappings, especially those with a JACK in them, you just may develop a 'sense' for when such card combinations, along with a few points pegging, can 'deliver us from the evil' of getting SKUNKED!


Keep (3c 5h 7c Jh) and Toss (9h 9s)

03x10=030 - 555 (3 Cuts = 10 Points)
02x09=018 - 3h, 7h (5 Cuts >= 9 Points)
09x08=072 - 33, 4h, 6h, 77, JJJ (14 Cuts >= 8 Points)
11x07=077 - 2h, 444, 666, 8h, Th, Qh, Kh (25 Cuts >= 7 Points)
15x06=090 - 222, 888, TTT, QQQ, KKK (40 Cuts >= 6 Points)
01x05=005 - Ah (41 Cuts >= 5 Points)
05x04=020 - AAA, 99 (5 Cuts = 4 Points, NO HELP)
---------
46 312

Expected Average is: 312 DIV 46 is 6.783 Points

--

Keep (5h 9s 9h Jh) and Toss (3c 7c)

01x13=013 - Th (1 Cut = 13 Points)
03x12=036 - TTT (4 Cuts >= 12 Points)
02x09=018 - Ah, 6h (6 Cuts >= 9 Points)
14x08=112 - AAA, 555, 666, 99, JJJ (20 Cuts >= 8 Points)
02x07=014 - Qh, Kh (22 Cuts >= 7 Points)
06x06=036 - QQQ, KKK (28 Cuts >= 6 Points)
05x05=025 - 2h, 3h, 4h, 7h, 8h (33 Cuts >= 5 Points)
13x04=052 - 222, 33, 444, 77, 888 (13 Cuts = 4 Points, NO HELP)
---------
46 306

Expected Average is: 306 DIV 46 is 6.652 Points

--

Keep (3c 5h 7c 9h) and Toss (9s Jh)

03x08=024 - 333 (3 Cuts = 8 Points)
08x07=056 - 6666, 8888 (11 Cuts >= 7 Points)
06x06=036 - 555, 777 (17 Cuts >= 6 Points)
04x05=020 - 4444 (21 Cuts >= 5 Points)
21x04=084 - AAAA, 99, TTTT, JJJ, QQQQ, KKKK (42 Cuts >= 4 Points)
04x02=008 - 2222 (4 Cuts = 2 Points, NO HELP)
---------
46 228

Expected Average is: 228 DIV 46 is 4.957 Points
Inushtuk1 says: Hi JQT. Like you said, we’’ll Never be able to calculate this over the board, unless you are Rainman. There are a few on this site who say, “When in doubt keep the flush.” I say, “When in doubt keep the key connectors.” Did I just get lucky? Or is there something to that idea?
Guest says: What flush?
JQT says: Those seem like good instincts, Mike. Also, I think that by jettisoning the PAIR of 9 Cards (as described very well by JRCeagle78 earlier), this allows us some better prospects during the pegging. And so it's a combination of both holding those 'key connectors,' as well as the improved pegging possibilities. Notice that Halscrib precisely 'matches' the 14% improved chances of averting the SKUNK figure that I have also calculated above, and therefore it's 'right on the money' today, in that as long as we can peg One Point after Toss (9 9), we should enjoy having those 25 Cuts that can do the job, as opposed to only 22 Cuts after we might Toss (3 7). To recap, we take that difference between 25 Cuts and 22 Cuts (or 3), and divide it by 22 to get 0.136, or approximately a 14% improvement. In many puzzles, we are often 'jostling' for between 5% and 10% improvement to perhaps produce a NET difference of maybe three or four "Spread Points," which in my 'stakes' example might "cost" us anywhere from $4.00 to $6.00 in a "money" game, or maybe we Win or Lose by a few points in a close Endgame Battle. But in this puzzle, your ability to ascertain that Toss (9 9) is the better way to proceed might just have saved you anywhere from $90.00 to over $100.00, or perhaps an entire Game Point. Because while LOSING is BAD, GETTING SKUNKED SUX! And increasing your odds by 14% is significant; in fact, it is tantamount to 'removing one more bullet' while playing Russian Roulette! Okay, folks, for those who are not yet entirely sick of my screwy Cribbage Puzzles, another one of my conundrums shall appear in just a few more hours! But not-to-worry: because after this, there is nearly a four-week reprieve before I once inflict more of my misery and mayhem upon the Good People at the Daily Cribbage Hand!