October 20, 2020

*** This hand was suggested by Goatman
11*-18  ?
50%
24%
20%
2%
1%
0%
Total votes: 231
GoatmanPlay the flush and toss the 4C and 5D, or toss 5 and Queen? I tossed 5/Q, a seven was cut.
james500
3924 votes

Joined: June 2013

 
 
 
Tuesday 3:22 AM
I tend to keep flushes if they have the same value as the alternative. 4-5 is a pretty strong discard too.

And it was a 7 cut again, clearly you have psychic powers! Can you give me five numbers from 1 to 50, and a further two from 1 to 12, for the Euro lottery tonight?
warquaker
238 votes

Joined: July 2020

 
 
 
Tuesday 4:03 AM
I decided NOT to flush. I usually miss out on the presence of one. I need a bigger screen or better resolution.
usacoder
968 votes

Joined: August 2019

 
 
 
Tuesday 4:05 AM
Oops - on my first run of the algorithm I entered the Q as a club. So my choice is worth a virtual muggins.

Once rerun with the correct cards, the algo reports that keeping the flush is best, a 17.80 average.

My errant toss of 5Q is worth 17.58. Not much of a difference.

But then there is the show-card, which says "hey Mr. Muggins, pay attention."
Rosemarie44
2052 votes

Joined: March 2016

 
 
 
Tuesday 4:19 AM
I am wobbling between it pays to flush and tossing 5-Q. This hand has more cuts but at only 10 points maximum.
glmccuskey
4102 votes

Joined: April 2011

 
 
 
Tuesday 4:42 AM
Nice cut for a doz. offense to the lead.
Eolus619
1343 votes

Joined: June 2020

 
 
 
Tuesday 4:55 AM
This seems to be second deal. The pegs say I am way off schedule so play O” for current dealer. The hand says “O” . Keeping with Ras and James point from several days ago the flush has the most points in HAND and gets help from 20 cuts. As JQT & others have said sending a 5 to own crib often has good potential. The starter says “O” ....so off I go in an attempt to get back on the right side of the CPZ schedule
Eolus619 says: actually i have made a mistake in my submission...I fat fingered the selection. I do want to keep the flush and it gets help from 18 not 20 cuts ..and both the Q-5 and 4-5 discards create hands worth six...
Gougie00
5731 votes

Joined: March 2008

 
 
 
Tuesday 5:28 AM
I like that 445 together. I'll toss the 78. Nice puzzle.
dec
6359 votes

Joined: April 2008

 
 
 
Tuesday 6:12 AM
If we had a sizable lead I just might go with 4-5.. but we do not .. hoping for another four, seven or eight cut and or get a sizable crib. A sensible, safe discard here. dec
RubyTuesday
915 votes

Joined: January 2019

 
 
 
Tuesday 6:13 AM
I decided not to keep the flush and threw Q 5. It would have been great to have a 4 as the turn up but 7 will do very nicely thank you.
Mark6
702 votes

Joined: June 2020

 
 
 
Tuesday 6:32 AM
Keep the Flush and nice start for the Crib
mfetchCT425
1400 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Tuesday 6:52 AM
The flush hold was a close second for me. I like 5-Q to my crib slightly more than 4-5 and like the makeup of this hand a little more than the flush as the pair of 4s may come in handy in the pegging. It’s seems real close though between the two choices.
wasa
3019 votes

Joined: November 2014

 
 
 
Tuesday 7:18 AM
It pays to flush, especially if I also get to toss a 5 in my crib. Agree with James500
Jazzselke
2587 votes

Joined: March 2009

 
 
 
Tuesday 7:20 AM
Very good puzzle,3 viable choices: 45, 5Q and 78 are all highly rated choices. Throwing 78 is only a combined 6 points, but looking for a huge kabangee cut of a 6.
Jazzselke says: ...my preference is to hold 4478 and throw thr Q5, but it's a photo finish. 45 always deserves serious consideration.
cwed
1355 votes

Joined: October 2014

 
 
 
Tuesday 7:34 AM
I hold this way because of the possibility of a kabangi cut (6).
SallyAnn3
908 votes

Joined: March 2020

 
 
 
Tuesday 7:44 AM
Same as my mentor above. I could kick myself for not even seeing th 4-4-7-8, though, with the face 5 to the crib. I had my focus on the flush option to put a 5 in my crib....sigh
scottcrib
1637 votes

Joined: August 2019

 
 
 
Tuesday 8:22 AM
Unless a 6 is cut, 4-5 to the crib is about the same value as Q-5, so went that way.
Ras2829
5155 votes

Joined: November 2008

 
 
 
Tuesday 9:34 AM
Looks as though dealer and non-dealer are both about two points above average, assuming this is start of second hand. In this case the theory of 26 has become a reality of 29. So as n/d of first hand, will continue thinking offense when viewing placement of pegs, when viewing these six cards, and after seeing the starter card. The three likely retentions all have combined values of more than 17 with 4-4-7-8 the highest value though less than .3 of a point difference between the best and 4-4-5-Q with 7-8 discard at just under 17.2. The flush falls in the middle. Choosing an offense pegging strategy, will take pegs as offered and play on the lead. Would pair a four if led. On an Ace, 3, or 7 lead would play the 8. On a deuce, 5, 8, 9, or X-point lead, would play the 7, Guess that covers the bases on responses to the lead. The flush would be my second choice. The 5-Q 6.593 (1,251) is the better discard compared to the 4-5 5.534 (642) and rank consecutively at 7/91 and 8/91 to own crib. The 5-Q has the higher average because two points are scored only half as frequently as the 4-5 and 5-Q scores 10% more cribs of 8 points or more. Need the next deal in 2nd Street CPZ 43-47, and that is 32 points away. So some pegs here would be instrumental in getting close to that target. Peg aggressively!
Ras2829 says: Fine puzzle Goatman, and I am not kidding!
Hillchem says: On a 6 lead, would you play an 8? Also, can you expand on your thinking with the 9 lead? And yes, great puzzle.
Ras2829 says: Hi Hillchem: Yes, would play the 8 on a six lead. That's the best play I can make since am holding a 7. For similar reasons would play the 7 on a nine lead since am holding an 8, know of two 7's, and am able to retain 4-4 for possible pegging at end of sequence.
Ras2829 says: Knowing of two 7's and an eight, n/d lead of a 9 would be most likely from a hand such as 9-9-10-J or 5-9-10-J, or similar.
Hillchem says: Thanks so much!
JQT
4143 votes

Joined: October 2008

 
 
 
Tuesday 9:36 AM
The FLUSH is nearly equal in overall value, but (4 4 7 8) will probably peg more offensively.
JRCeagle78
1054 votes

Joined: June 2016

 
 
 
Tuesday 1:09 PM
I tossed the 4c-5d because if I tossed to Qs-5d the crib would be more dependent on the pone tossing X cards. The 4-5 leaves the crib open to more possibilities of a variable discard by the pone.

In this case there is no apparent loss of points based on the counting of the hands. It has yet to be determined which is the better pegging hand, however the flush may give the dealer a slight advantage with the more difficult hand to read by the pone.
Ras2829 says: Hi JRCeagle78: Based on my scant empirical evidence the 4-4-7-8 pegs more potential points than does the flush if choosing an offense pegging strategy. Holding 4-4-5-Q actually pegs more on average than does either 4-4-7-8 or the flush. Will defer to HalscribCLX on these pegging values. I tend to do that when having less than 1,000 samples.
Coeurdelion
5595 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Tuesday 4:14 PM
I think it's between 4-4-7-8 (5-Q), 4-4-5-Q (7-8) and the flush 4S-7-8-Q (4C-5):

4-4-7-8: 6pts + 6½pts (Schell: 6.63) = 12½pts

4-4-5-Q: 4pts + 6½pts (Schell: 6.53) = 10½pts

4S-7-8-Q: 6pts + 6½pts (Schell: 6.48) = 12½pts

Potential:

4-4-7-8: Improves with 3333, 44, 6666, 777, 888, 9999 = 20 cuts = 20/46 = 43.5% up to 9/10/12/14pts with all cuts.

4-4-5-Q: Improves with AAAA, 2222, 3333, 44, 555, 6666, 777 + 15xXs = 39 cuts = 39/46 = 84.8% up to 8/10/14pts with AAAA, 3333, 44, 555, 6666, QQQ = 20 cuts.

4S-7-8-Q: Improves with AAAA, 3333, 44, 555, 6666, 777, 888, 9999, QQQ = 30 cuts = 65.2% up to 9/10pts with 44, 6666, 777, 888, 9999 = 16 cuts. Plus 9 spades for 1pt extra for his nob = 9/46 = 0.20pt.

Position:

It looks like we were First Pone and both of us scored 1 and 2pts more than average. So I'll continue to play Offense.

Pegging:

Playing Offense I think both 4-4-5-Q and 4S-7-8-Q will peg well. Of course the flush will be harder to read.

Summary:

Both 4-4-7-8 and the flush start with 12½pt but 4-4-5-Q has more cuts for improvement and 20 cuts for 8-14pts although 4-4-7-8 has 20 cuts for 9-14pts. 4-4-5-Q has 2pts to catch up on the other two while the flush has an extra 0.20pt for a spade cut. I think this will be close but as the flush will peg well, has the extra 0.20pt and still 16 cuts for 9/10pts I'll throw the 4C-5.
HalscribCLX
5318 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Tuesday 4:23 PM
At 11*-18 playing an Offense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

_______________Our
Offense___Hand_Pegs_Crib_Total____W8 %____W9 %
4-4-7-8____7.87+3.02+6.54=17.43____29.4____21.3
4S-7-8-Q___8.02+2.93+6.45=17.40____29.5____20.7
4-4-5-Q____7.26+3.28+6.62=17.16____28.4____19.5

Offense_______L8 %____L9 %
4-4-7-8________46.7____56.3
4S-7-8-Q_______47.9____57.1
4-4-5-Q________47.9____58.0

4-4-7-8 is best for expected by only 0.03pt but it is also very slightly best for Win %s and appreciably lowest for Loss %s. So I'll select 5-Q to discard.

After the 7 cut I'll play Offense to the lead.