Yesterday's results

*** This hand was suggested by Gougie00
45*-35  ?
47%
31%
14%
2%
1%
1%
0%
0%
Total votes: 251
Gougie00Just curious how the experts play a clunker like this? 9-10, Q-K, A-3 or some other combo. Anyone can play with good cards, but how about something truly terrible.
Sally3
96 votes

Joined: October 2021

   
Wednesday 3:03 AM
My choice is based on the 9/10 having some 'clunker' toss hitting it as it doesn't do anything for my hand anyway. Glad we have the lead!
RedTailRogue says: I think that we can all agree on one thing. CLUNKER HAND
mrob2199
852 votes

Joined: February 2009

   
Wednesday 3:20 AM
Yayyyyy!!!! I’m with Sally again!!! Keeping the QK with the A3 gives us full value if an A or 2 is cut -and the 9-10 gives us at least a possibility of an 8 point double run in the crib
Sally3 says: hahahaha Maybe I'm finally learning, all while I take 3 months off from actually playing ;)
james500
3111 votes

Joined: June 2013

   
Wednesday 3:23 AM
Sequential cards open at both ends for a three card run.
winesteward48
96 votes

Joined: April 2021

   
Wednesday 3:36 AM
I too like the idea of seeing if 9-10 can help the crib. After the cut can we just grab a peek at the crib?
dec
5514 votes

Joined: April 2008

   
Wednesday 4:30 AM
Besides the reasoning on the discard, we will just have to accept checking on the pegging. Maybe opponent did a 8-10 or 8-9? dec
Sally3 says: CONGRATS on BRONZE (again!) last night, Dan :)
Inushtuk1 says: Hi Dan. When you say, "...checking on the pegging.", what exactly do you mean. Is it similar to what MiketheExpert replied to my post?
dec says: face card leads pair or play into a run. I would not pair the ace or the three if led. dec
Inushtuk1 says: Thanks Dan.
Jazzselke
1985 votes

Joined: March 2009

   
Wednesday 5:07 AM
Also have the possibility of the Jack cut helping both hand and crib, hopefully to the tune of 8 points in the crib.
Gougie00
4894 votes

Joined: March 2008

   
Wednesday 5:31 AM
Yuck.
RedTailRogue
12 votes

Joined: December 2021

   
Wednesday 5:58 AM
RedTailRogue says: I'm in the minority on this junk hand. Whenever it's my crib, I want to get my K in there.I definitely want to keep the low cards.
Inushtuk1
784 votes

Joined: July 2016

   
Wednesday 6:04 AM
This one was easy Greg. You might say I've had a lot of 'training' with clunker hands. Put the middle cards in our crib. These touchers are open at both ends. As Pone it would be (K-9).
Inushtuk1 says: With only two known points I will take any pegs I can get.
MiketheExpert says: Hi Inushtuk. The question now becomes should we really take any and all pegs we can get? In theory, yes, because we are at risk of falling well off pace. But knowing we have a 0-pt hand after the cut, with modest prospects in our crib...would it in fact be wise to pair an A or 3 lead here? With pone at hole 35, you can consider him 1 hole ahead of position, and I certainly wouldn't want to give up 6-2 now without a satisfactory reply (i.e. 3-3-3 with now a risky lone ace left in our hand). This is tough, as 2 pts doesn't do us an awful lot of good, but giving up 6 this way puts us in a world of hurt...I would almost think about replying with the safer K on a 3 lead...(3-K-2-Q-5-A) and now it is only 2-2. And what is more, if he does have the other 3, we now finish it off with 3-3 for another 3 pts and last card!
Inushtuk1 says: Thanks for your excellent reply Mike. I was wondering when I was typing, "...take any pegs I can get." if that was the correct decision. But I decided not to delete it, just so someone, like yourself could steer me in the right direction. This site has taught me to be a better discarder, and now it is helping me make better pegging decisions. My idea was to get as close to 60 as possible after this Deal. You are pointing out I gather, that after seeing the hand and cut, I should be more worried about keeping the Pone below 44. And good point about pairing an X-card as well.
wasa
2224 votes

Joined: November 2014

   
Wednesday 6:22 AM
Gougie says it best. Only considered A-3, 9-T, or Q-K in my crib. A-3 can work with Q-K with an A,2 or 3 cut. 9-T works with Q-K with a J or 5 cut. A-3 works with 9-T with a A,2,3,4,5 cut. So not tossing A-3. Prefer the open ended 9-T vs the closed ended Q-K. Not like opponent will toss me a 5, so more strength of the 9-T.
wasa says: Someone on CHOD calls this the Visine toss - get the red out!
Inushtuk1 says: Sounds like John.
MiketheExpert
302 votes

Joined: April 2021

   
Wednesday 6:37 AM
Nothing good about this...I have to keep 0 pts, and at the end of this hand I anticipate to be well off pace of reaching hole 70 in 2 deals... I think I must throw (9 10)...Better than (Q K) which is dead at one end (and maybe both if pone will try to avoid throwing a J). And the (A, 2, 4) will all make 5 combos in the hand which are more helpful to (Q K) than (9 10).

After the 9 cut, would pair a Q or K lead since I have an A to score 31 if he triples it.
zeke76
1127 votes

Joined: August 2018

   
Wednesday 6:42 AM
Want to keep the touching or close cards together (A3, 9T, QK). I think I need the A3 in my hand for pegging. KQ will do less in the crib than 9T and will be almost as useful as 9T in the hand, so its 9T to the crib.
cribbagepogo
3111 votes

Joined: October 2007

   
Wednesday 8:18 AM
The crib is the graveyard for wayward K's, except here.
31for14
502 votes

Joined: May 2019

   
Wednesday 8:34 AM
That 16 crib might get me me close to position.So will peg defensively. Happy to be on the SS team again today.
Inushtuk1 says: Way to think positive about our crib 31for14.
Sally3 says: lol.. I won't withold your hug :)
Fender Bass
209 votes

Joined: July 2021

   
Wednesday 8:50 AM
Hoping to get some crib luck or many a good cut with a dog like this
JQT
3338 votes

Joined: October 2008

   
Wednesday 9:02 AM
In spite of the "clunker" we apparently dealt ourselves today, try to look on the Bright Side: There's nothing quite like being "Ahead and Dealing" in Cribbage (or in Life...) ... and so, Cheer the Heck Up (even if things seem 'All Fupped Duck,' as they say).

Seriously, while we're barely One Hole beyond the Second Street Par Hole 44 in this game, who knows where we are in this world with: Climate Change (a few hundred years into a non-changeable, natural, thousand-year cycle, or one hundred years into a must-change, fixable, several-hundred-year, wrong course -- that "needs" correctin'); or with Democracy in The World (or in This, or any particular 'PiC OnE' or 'PiCk FiVe') Country; or with the latest Pandemic (in a Long Line of unceasing lines...), which perhaps fills more graveyards more quickly during these past few years than All Wars and All Natural Disasters Combined, Lickety-Split, Just Like THAT!

We are deciding upon a Discard Decision here, folks, but should we -- can we -- ignore everything else that's going on all around us? Actually, yes: at least until the next paragraph, let's get back to Cribbage! Now, I already know that Halscrib has an affinity for Toss (9 T) in such dire situations. But I have been trying to "Take the High(er) Road" these past few years -- decades?! -- and use the 'Max Kassler Approach' that tends toward stowing "Small" Cards into our Crib, at least when no other good option exists. It's my New Calling.

At least in Baseball, we know when it's the Ninth Inning: but in a Close 'Left-Coast' Night Game, we could end up playing all night with them Extra Innings. People wanted the pandemic to be over with before it even started, and yet: just as it occurred and 'played out' over a century ago with the "Spanish" Flu, the real tragedy didn't begin until the cold months came, those months which followed what was thought to be its end. Oh no, I'm leaving Cribbage all alone in the dust again. Look: Just read every-other paragraph, and maybe I can please 100% of the people (at least 2% of the time).

As an investor, I like the way Warren Buffett teaches younger kids about health: He asks them right up front when they're teenagers, "If you could obtain any kind of car in the world, and have someone else even buy it for you, what kind of car would you choose?" But then, after a pause, while all the kids are chatting and smiling and imitating the sounds of screeching tires, he adds: "Oh, and one more thing: This one car that you choose has to last you your entire life!" (Hey: Give me credit that I would even *dare* bring up economics during this week!)

Warren admits he's mostly lucky to exist and appear on Life's Stage when and where he was born, but he also realizes that good health, which is probably part luck and part good-decision-making, is like that choice over which "car" we should pick, as it dawns on us what "fresh" leather will feel like (and look and smell like) after half -- no, after three-quarters of a century.

Most of us who play this Old Game of Cribbage are getting on in years: Can you remember the car that was YOUR favorite back in 1950, or 1960, or 1970? And how are those models and makes looking these days?! Did we already make too many "unforced" errors in our life thus far, and what are we continuing to maybe choose (and perhaps unwisely) in spite of the fact that we now should KNOW BETTER?! What excuse can we conjure for those decisions we make today, while knowing they are wrong?

It seems as though we just picked up one of those jalopy automobiles at the salvage yard as our Cribbage Hand today: you know, the one's we coveted so much as teenagers! Look at that Ten, Queen, King, and the way they all shine, like your reflection in the spectacular chrome, front and rear bumpers on a vintage Buick Riviera or Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme!

That "Lone" Ace sits next to the Trey as if it were "Three on the Tree" gear shift on that old truck Dad once had: who didn't want one of those? And the 9 Card is like the Number of Miles per Gallon that that behemoth V-8 engine once delivered; but who cares, because gasoline is twenty-nine cents per gallon and will probably be this way forever, right?! And meanwhile, a modern-day electric motor will effortlessly, almost silently, deliver over twice the power of that old, loud, V-8 "engine" or close to a thousand horsepower! And maybe soon it will do so while we are catching up on some needed-sleep during our routine journey.

I said, "Cheer Up!" Even a silly old card game can bring people together, sometimes similar but very often, very different people. I've seen old games such as Chess and Cribbage drive a very few people crazy, but much more often, it can lend a bit of stability into a life that already may be teetering. I think it generally does more good than harm, and yes, even after hands such as these.

Today, we have all Six Cards add up to a Lot of Nothing! If we could hold all Six Cards in One Big Clumsy Hand, it's somewhat disconcerting that even after Four Cuts (say any 7 Card), we would still be holding onto Zero Points! I've actually been a Dealer in a game in which I pegged One Hole (the guaranteed minimum), and then had Zero Points in Hand and Zero Points in the Crib! And if you've not had this happen to you (and it will) and do so TWICE IN ONE GAME, Cheer Up!

We could stow those "Touching" Cards into our Crib and Toss (9 T), but much of my recent testing done over the last decade or so shows that we may actually do slightly better after the likes of Toss (A 3), and placing those "Small" Cards into our Crib! It's really difficult to foresee whether a helpful Ace Cut or Deuce Cut would help the former or the latter Discard Choice more or less, and I suppose we'd just be happy to see it occur, either way, nevertheless!

I'll go out on that limb and Toss (A 3) today, and after the 9 Card Cut, let's hope we have a Hand and Crib that 'adds up' to more than just Two Points! And let's also hope that we can peg more than half that much, the bare minimum. Times are rough, indeed.

And sometimes you just know it's going to get worse before it gets better! Pone is probably holding (2 4 9 9), and after that 9 Card Cut, perhaps Pone is about to lead a 9 Card. And then, Pone might really stick-it-to-us after we give up PAIRS Royal and say "go" at a Count of Twenty-Seven, because now, Pone might play a Deuce instead of the 4 Card; and why not score (31-4) instead of (31-2)?! We're sitting here and getting trounced like Rodney Dangerfield, not getting any respect whatsoever. "How about something truly terrible?" the Puzzle Poster asks. And we're barely on Second Street! Have I covered all the possible miserable details?

If you need help with this kind of Hand in Cribbage, Welcome to the Club! Some hands, we just get lots of junk, and we need to simply endure it. As I taught my son: On those kinds of yucky days, I've learned that it's often best just to make as few important decisions as possible, as a New Day can usually make a huge difference. If you cannot do the next RIGHT thing, then try to do as few things and make as few important decisions as possible. And quickly put such days as these into your rear-view mirror, and try to come out relatively unscathed. It's kind of an art of living.

This might also prove to be good advice in Cribbage, who knows? It never helps to self-sabotage our own position and game. And in Life: If you find that each day is like having this hand dealt to you over and over, let someone know how and if and whether they can help. Heck: Ask me if you need help. I'll tell you about my latest Zero-Point Cribbage Hand!

How Are You? Oh, Me? I just put an Ace and a Trey in my Crib -- What are you up to lately? Let me, or someone else, know if you ever need help. (This is a serious, limited-time offer; only available on 'Daze' that end in 'Why'!)
Inushtuk1 says: Ah Ha! I see what you did there; on Bell Let's Talk Day. And yes of course,( A-3) tops (9-10), or (Q-K). But why* would* Pone play his 2 at a count of 27? And how would s/he score (31-4)?
JQT says: Yes, only (2 2 9 9) would allow the (31-4); I guess I was trying to make the experience of this even more truly terrible, as the Puzzle Poster queried.
Andy (muesli64)
2065 votes

Joined: August 2009

   
Wednesday 10:46 AM
With the flow. And the text book.
Ras2829
4343 votes

Joined: November 2008

   
Wednesday 11:06 AM
No Q-K for me whether choosing offense or defense. The -K is one of six discard combinations that score 0-2 in excess of 40% of the time. That lousy due does so at a 46.674% to own crib and averages a paltry 3.483. It's got to be the 9-10. At hole 45 with the deal, I'll choose offense (shaded towards optimal) to include the pegging which means that I would pair a King or Queen if led. If tripled, dealer picks up four pegs. Will play off a small card lead and advance the count with K on a 5-6-7-8-9-10 lead. BTW, would have chosen defense to include the pegging had n/d been at hole 30.
Ras2829 says: Here are those six discard combinations and how they rank to own crib. I yo like 0-2 points in crib toss these often: (1) 10-K 2.836 50.043%; (2) Q-K 3.483 46.674%; (3) 9-Q 2.994 46.446%; (4) 6-K 3.209 45.565%; (5) 10-Q 3.166 45.069%; and (6) 6-Q 3.73 44.0%. They don't do quite as bad when tossed to opponent. These will average about one point more when tossed on the other side of the board and they will score 0-2 about 10% less frequently. All discards have a lower average when tossed to own crib. If you look at all 91 discards, 43 of 91 score less than four points when discarded to self; only 2/91 score less than four points when tossed to opponent. Hope I avoided typos. The print in the reply box or comment boxes seems to be about a 4 font and my eyes need 12 as a minimum. Of course, an option is to prepare comment in document space, cut and paste here. Maybe getting cataracts removed this winter will be a better choice.
Coeurdelion
4801 votes

Joined: October 2007

   
Wednesday 4:10 PM
Normally with a bad hand I'll throw close cards to my box. Here there are two lots of cloae cards - 9-10 and Q-K but 9-10 is open both ends so is the better discard I think. But I'll look at 9-10, Q-K and A-3:

A-3-Q-K: 0pt + 4¼pts (Schell: 4.29) = 4¼pts

A-3-9-10: 0pt + 3½pts (Schell: 3.46) = 3½pts

9-10-Q-K: 0pt + 4¼pts (Schell: 4.52) = 4¼pts

Potential:

A-3-Q-K: Improves with AAA, 2222, 333, 4444, 5555, JJJJ, QQQ, KKK = 28 cuts = 28/46 = 60.9% up to 3/4/6/7pts with AAA, 2222, 4444, 5555, JJJJ = 19 cuts.

A-3-9-10: Improves with AAA, 2222, 333, 4444, 5555, 6666, 8888, 999, 101010, JJJJ = 36 cuts = 36/46 = 78.3% up to 3/4/7pts with AAA, 2222, 333, 5555, 8888, JJJJ = 22 cuts.

9-10-Q-K: Improves with 5555, 6666, 8888, 999 + 13xXs = 28 cuts = 28/46 = 60.9% up to 3/5/6pts with 5555 8888, JJJJ = 12 cuts.

Position:

We have a good lead and are 1pt past 2nd street positional hole. We have a poor hand so I think we should play Defense.

Pegging:

Playing Defense I think 9-10-Q-K will peg well but so will A-3-Q-K and A-3-9-10.

Summary:

A-3-Q-K and 9-10-Q-K have the same starting value at 4¼pts (although Schell puts 9-10-Q-K at approximately ¼pt. higher) which is ¾pt. more than A-3-9-10. However A-3-9-10 has the most cuts for improvement and most for 3-7pts. Will this catch up the ¾pt? As A-3-Q-K has AAA, 2222 = 7 cuts for 6/7pts and A-3-Q-K has only 2222 = 4 cuts for 7pts I don't think it will so I'll stick with the decision to throw the 9-10.