April 18, 2021

*** This hand was suggested by scottcrib
39-47*  ?
41%
20%
13%
11%
6%
3%
0%
0%
0%
0%
0%
Total votes: 215
scottcribNot sure that I've ever seen this hand. I was behind in the game and wanted to toss defensively.
JCM
910 votes

Joined: April 2019

 
 
 
Sunday 3:14 AM
I'm the odd one out so far - I just see that any X-pointer gives 8 points and A-A-3-3 should peg fairly well.

It's early enough in the game that we don't have to be defensive, IMO.
scottcrib says: Thanks for the comments JCM.
james500
3924 votes

Joined: June 2013

 
 
 
Sunday 3:30 AM
"Treble nickels".
4 lead.

Another video has been uploaded to the J Kittridge YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/6ymPVXiPui4 for anybody else who enjoys watching them.
RubyTuesday
915 votes

Joined: January 2019

 
 
 
Sunday 3:59 AM
Ho hum. I threw 4 6 because it seemed a less expensive toss than most alternatives
mrob2199
1436 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Sunday 4:04 AM
Awesome puzzle today Scott!!! Tough discard in general,and combined with the relative positions becomes almost impossible-I’m going to play for a picture cut here with the somewhat all or nothing 3/6 discard-the AA34 has a decent shot of pegging 3 and if we get the picture cut,which is obviously the most probable cut card,we improve our hand to 8 while most most likely killing the crib-from this position I think that’s the best possible outcome
scottcrib says: Thanks Rob. I also tossed 3-6 because of face cut possibilities and negative delta.
Ras2829 says: Himrob2199: Been a tough few months on ACC Presidents. Three of them are now resting in peace, and they were among the living little more than 18 months ago. Guess you've heard that Jeanne Hofbauer has died from the ravages of Stage 4 ovarian cancer. After diagnosis, Jeanne lasted less than a month.
mrob2199 says: Yes Ras it has been a tough few months
SallyAnn3 says: :(
GNXXXVI says: Not sure who the 3rd was did I miss something?
Ras2829 says: Hi GNXXXVI: Well, was counting DeLynn Colvert among the three, fall of 2019. Guess should have said ACC Presidents, past and present.
dec
6359 votes

Joined: April 2008

 
 
 
Sunday 4:12 AM
Same same I just picked two clubs here. All or nothing. Twos and faces goal cut here. dec
mfetchCT425
1400 votes

Joined: February 2009

 
 
 
Sunday 5:01 AM
Most defensive discard out of this bunch while still leaving us a good chance to get into decent position with the right cut (face cut or 2, or to a lesser extend a 7 or ace). Will lead the A of clubs.
Jazzselke
2587 votes

Joined: March 2009

 
 
 
Sunday 5:50 AM
2 ways to hold triple nickels, but would rather throw 36 than 46.
Eolus619
1343 votes

Joined: June 2020

 
 
 
Sunday 6:10 AM
need a board position turn around for sure

39-47*......49*-63 ......65-73*

Gougie00
5731 votes

Joined: March 2008

 
 
 
Sunday 6:15 AM
There is nothing on the menu that I like. I sort of like the 334 together because maybe a 2, 5 or 8 will be the starter. The 4 cut means they all add up to 15. Oh well, oh well. Lead the 3.
SallyAnn3 says: Congrats on your GOLD win in ACC yesterday, Greg!
Gougie00 says: Thank you. If I get past the 1st round, watch out. Problem is, I am one and done a whole lot more.
glmccuskey
4102 votes

Joined: April 2011

 
 
 
Sunday 6:51 AM
Defense is the way to go as indicated by many above me.
SallyAnn3
908 votes

Joined: March 2020

 
 
 
Sunday 7:42 AM
Against the grain again :( I need to see some of my mentors live so they can "fix" me lol
MiketheExpert
1123 votes

Joined: April 2021

 
 
 
Sunday 12:03 PM
This is a bit of a tough decision. I am behind and want to keep a chance at getting a great hand, but at the same time I can't afford to give up too many points to dealer. I just don't think you can afford to throw the 4 6 in this situation. I opted for defensive discard A 6, at the same time keeping a good pegging hand and decent chances to increase the value. A lot depends on what the dealer is holding, but no X-ray vision today :)
MiketheExpert says: in retrospect, the 3 6 toss would probably work better in most cases, but my eyes a little greedy trying to hope for better than 8. In that case, I maybe I should toss 4 6 and hope for the quadruple run lol
Coeurdelion
5595 votes

Joined: October 2007

 
 
 
Sunday 1:48 PM
I think the choice is between A-A-3-3 (4-6) and A-A-3-4 (3-6):

A-A-3-3: 4pts - 5½pts (Schell: 5.34) = -1½pts

A-A-3-4: 2pts - 5pts (Schell: 4.87) = -3pts

Potential:

A-A-3-3: Improves with AA, 2222, 33, 7777, 8888, 9999 + 16xXs = 36 cuts = 36/46 = 78.3% up to 8/16pts with AA, 2222, 33, 8888 + 16xXs = 28 cuts.

A-A-3-4: Improves with AA, 2222, 33, 444, 5555, 666, 7777, 8888, 9999 + 16xXs = 46 cuts = 46/46 = 100.0% up to 5/6/8/10pts with AA, 2222, 5555, 7777 + 16xXs = 30 cuts.

Position:

Opponent is past 2nd street positional hole and we're well behind. I think our best bet is to keep Dealer short of 60pts if we can so I'll play Defense.

Pegging:

Playing Defense I think A-A-3-3 will peg better.

Summary:

A-A-3-3 is better for starting value by 1½pts and although A-A-3-4 has more cuts for improvement and 30 cuts for 5-10pts A-A-3-3 has a much better maximum at 16pts and 28 cuts for 8/16pts. So I don't think A-A-3-4 has a chance of catching up. Therefore I'll throw the slightly risky suited 4-6.
HalscribCLX
5318 votes

Joined: February 2008

 
 
 
Sunday 1:54 PM
At 39-47* playing an Offense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

_______________Our
Offense___Hand_Pegs__Crib___Total___W5 %___W6 %
A-A-3-3____7.48+1.78+(-5.09)=4.17____2.5____10.4
A-A-3-4____6.26+2.22+(-4.41)=4.07____2.1____10.5
A-3-3-4____5.65+2.52+(-4.51)=3.66____2.0_____9.8

Offense______L5 %___L6 %
A-A-3-3_______23.4___55.1
A-A-3-4_______21.9___54.4
A-3-3-4_______22.1___54.8

A-A-3-3 is best for expected averages by a slim 0.10pt and also best for Win % by a very slight margin. A-A-3-4 is slightly lowest for Loss %s but even so I'll select 4-6 to discard.

After the 4 cut I'll lead a 3 and play Offense:

Lead____________Our Pegging Pts.
3____________________1.81
A____________________1.53

JCM
910 votes

Joined: April 2019

 
 
 
Sunday 3:16 PM
Was going to chime in before Hal and Coeurdelion - but too late for that.

Many here went for the A-3-3-4 keep, discarding A-6. Can't be certain but I suspect they feared the possibility of a 24pt crib if they discarded 4-6.

I wondered what the probability of that is. I used to know a thing or 2 about combinations, permutations, etc - but it's been so long I don't know how to calculate those things anymore.

So I "cheated" and found a calculator for these things. Looks useful. Here's its website before I proceed: https://www.dcode.fr/picking-probabilities

I white-listed it(permitting ads) because it looks that useful.(They nag you if you don't. I rarely whitelist any site.)

To achieve that fearsome 24pt crib, 2 probabilities must be calculated and then multiplied together:

1. The chance that the cut card will be a 4,5 or 6.
2. The chance that the 2 cards the dealer puts in his crib are any 2 of 4,5 or 6.

After the deal, we are drawing from a set of 46 cards. So on the website, we put 46 as the "total number of objects". After seeing our hand, there are remaining a total of 10 cards that are 4,5, or 6. That's 3 fours, 4 fives, and 3 sixes. On the website, these are the objects that are "distinct" from the others. So we enter 10 in that box. This much applies to both the wanted calculations above.

Now for the 1st calculation. We are drawing just 1 card(starter). So 1 goes into the "number of objects picked" box.

We want that card to be a 4,5 or 6. So 1 goes into the box "number of objects picked among those distinct".

You get 4 choices as to how you want the probability displayed. I chose the "odds" format and it calculated 2 chances out of 9 - that's 2/9. All the 4 choices say the same thing - just differing formats.

That 2/9 figure will have to be multiplied by the 2nd calculated probability - the chance dealer puts 2 of 4,5,or 6 in his crib. The first 2 boxes remain the same: 46 objects, 10 distinct ones. Now, though, "the number of objects picked" box becomes 2(because dealer puts 2 cards away).

And the "number of objects picked amongst those distinct" box also becomes 2 - we want both cards to be 4,5 or 6.

Running this second calculation we get 1 chance in 23 of this- that's 2/23.

The overall probability of getting that 24pt crib, then, is 2/9 multiplied by 1/23. Using the keyboard calculator for that, we get 0.966%. That's a smidge less than 1%. So 99% of the time that 24-pt crib won't happen. 99 times out 100 that 24pt crib doesn't happen. Meanwhile, you get better returns in most other situations with A-A-3-3 keep. So, I don't fear that 24pt crib possibility.

Those here who are not put off by this type of calculation may find this post, and that website interesting.

Have a great day!
JCM says: "Running this second calculation we get 1 chance in 23 of this- that's 2/23." SHOULD READ "Running this second calculation we get 1 chance in 23 of this- that's 1/23."
fentesk says: I like the thought experiment. I tried calculating it a different way out of curiosity to see how close the approaches would be. The starter card should be the same, 10/46 chances for a 4, 5, or 6. That's 1/4.6 or 2/9.2 which matches. Next, I pulled up Ras's discard information for tosses to own crib. From the sheets I had found he had tracked 86,755 discards. From that, he found the frequency of 4-5, 4-6, 5-5, 5-6 being discarded to own crib was (642+419+500+597) = 2158/86755 or 2.49%. Multiplying this by our starter card 10/46 gives 0.54% chance. Not too far off from your calculation!
fentesk says: One other item I noted. In your calculation, I believe the dealer discarding 4-4 and 6-6 would be counted since you're looking for any two of 4,5,6. Since we discarded 4-6, you can't get 24 when 4-4 and 6-6 are discarded (it would be a still painful 21 with the 5 cut). If we include Ras’s 4-4 and 6-6 frequencies, we get a 4.62% chance dealer discards any two of 4,5,6, quite similar to your 1/23 (4.35%) for almost exactly an overall 1% chance of the 24-point crib.
fentesk says: In the above note, I believe both of us are also counting things like the dealer discarding 4-4 and the starter being the last 4 (12-points) or dealer discarding 5-5 and the starter being a 5 (23-points), but I think this is close enough and doesn’t diminish from your main point that we shouldn’t overly fear the ~1% chance of a 24-point crib. Thanks for sharing your calculations!
JCM says: Thanks for your reply! -- I thought after posting, the calculated 0.966% includes hands like 44456, 45556, and 45666 - all of which are very high-scoring but less than 24pts. Also, as you point out as well, it includes hands of 5 cards holding only 4s and 6s but no 5s - these are not much of a concern - they are way below 24 in point value.---So the actual threat of those 21- and 24-pt cribs is less than 0.996% - probably closer to the 0.5% you estimated. ---That's 1 in 200 hands that it happens - not much to worry about if the keep is a productive one, and A-A-3-3 is just such a keep.
Ras2829 says: Hi JCM and fentesk: A great combined effort to show what the frequency of these super scoring combinations might be. Thanks for sharing.
Ras2829
5155 votes

Joined: November 2008

 
 
 
Sunday 3:55 PM
Choosing offense when looking at the pegs, when looking at these six cards, and once seeing the starter card. need to get all I can. Lead the 3C, take any pegs offered. Might as well leave "fake flush" option open although don't intend to split the aces. This combination has the greater hand score potential a A, 2, 3, 8, 10, J, Q, or K score 8 points or more.
Ras2829 says: At what point would RAS choose a defense strategy to include the pegging? If dealer were at holes 39-43 that would be my choice. With dealer deep in 2nd street CPZ (43-47), will likely be further behind if choosing defense.