June 7, 2021

*** This hand was suggested by MiketheExpert
0-0*  ?
40%
23%
9%
5%
4%
4%
3%
2%
1%
1%
0%
0%
0%
Total votes: 242
MiketheExpertwhat a throw decision to start off the game into your opponents crib. What would you do here?
james500
2884 votes

Joined: June 2013

   
Monday 3:16 AM
Tough one, I'll try A-4.
Plenty of helpful cuts.
Goatman
1740 votes

Joined: March 2017

   
Monday 3:17 AM
JQT
3111 votes

Joined: October 2008

   
Monday 3:36 AM
You were dealt WHAT?! Shall we (gasp!) Toss (4 5) "hunt down" one of those four Treys?

Yeah, Cribbage can be a cruel mistress sometimes. We retain the most possible potential after the absurd Toss (4 5), and we perhaps give away the least after Toss (2 4) or even Toss (2 2). Crazy!

It seems like as long as we give our Opponent a PAIR, or our 5 Card, or cards that 'add up' to Five, all will be well (I think I am joking). Or perhaps not.

Seriously, Toss (2 4) might be a good compromise; because then, even if we get a Trey Cut, it would help BOTH sides of the board. Even Toss (2 2) could fall into this similar category. I've often said that Deuces and 5 Cards are like "Water and Oil" and as such, they do NOT mix. (Or was it Piss and Vinegar? Sorry!)

If we were Dealer, I'd be more inclined to peg those Aces, but as Pone, since we must lead during the pegging, we may wonder if those two Deuces might work better for us. Probably not, since the Total Count of any hand we choose today is so low. Shall we 'ditch' them?

We're so far 'down the rabbit hole' we might now think of Toss (A 4) or even Toss (A 5), but then here we are, back where we began our thinking: why not then Toss (2 4) or Toss (2 2)? Yes, I better stop before my head explodes: it's Toss (2 2), and after the 9 Card Cut, I'll lead the 4 Card.

I sure wish I had thought of Toss (A A) instead, but: too late!
Ras2829
4131 votes

Joined: November 2008

   
Monday 4:56 AM
If choosing an offense strategy to include the pegging (as a good non-dealer of hand one should), it's goodbye 2-2. Only considered discards of 2-2, 2-4, or A-A. Will lead the four, if dealer response is a 10, will drop the five for count of 19, and you can follow that to see where it often leads to a whopping 31-4. When choosing defense, would take the 15-2. The 2-2 choice results in an edge in combined values of nearly .6 of a point. The A-A-4-5 has the largest potential hand value of those choices and is the only to break two offensive pegs. Those two advantages more than offset the crib value of the 2-2 at 6.186 (higher than 2-4 5.207 or A-A 5./592. Just may be that 2-2 will score a mere two points which it does about once in five.
Rosemarie44
1894 votes

Joined: March 2016

   
Monday 5:03 AM
Tossing a pair of twos to dealer and holding AA45 (4 card magic eleven) with today's hand. Best hand for expected averages. There are no two low value cards to toss to dealer as I look at 2-2-, A-4 or A-A.
glmccuskey
3412 votes

Joined: April 2011

   
Monday 5:25 AM
Agree with RAS. Would have taken the 15 after the 4 lead but I like his thoughts on saving the aces.
mfetchCT425
870 votes

Joined: February 2009

   
Monday 5:29 AM
Tossing 2-2 and keeping the “triple-5” hand which improves to 8 on any 5, 9, or “face” cut.
scottcrib
595 votes

Joined: August 2019

   
Monday 5:32 AM
Ugh. Almost tossed A-4 unsuited, but instead chose 2-2. Glad to see I have good company. Self-doubt is a killer.
dec
5280 votes

Joined: April 2008

   
Monday 5:34 AM
Hand improves on A 4 5 6 8 9 and faces quite a few cuts. I also like to try to keeping the aces for a 31/4 pegs. dec
usacoder
640 votes

Joined: August 2019

   
Monday 5:39 AM
I'm keepin' the pair.
Eolus619
372 votes

Joined: June 2020

   
Monday 6:29 AM
The problem of Pone tossing pairs to dealer crib never changes. Only the Q-Q & K-K average less than six. The 4-5 averages 7.26 (Schell) Sending “seven” to hold “four” ..nope. Need pegs for sure ..so toss the 2-2 based on the logic from comments above. This is another example of how difficult it is for Pone to deal first from 18+.
RubyTuesday
735 votes

Joined: January 2019

   
Monday 6:55 AM
I had no idea what to throw - 4 5? A pair? Ended up throwing dealer 2 2 and am a little surprised to see that it’s the most popular choice.
MiketheExpert
76 votes

Joined: April 2021

   
Monday 7:29 AM
As much as it pains me, I bit the bullet and tossed 4 5 being the first hand. I felt I needed to keep my AA22 combo for the double run possibility, and I'd least I'd be compensated if a 3 or face card was cut for my hand score. I also looked very closely at the (2H 5C) and (A A) discards as well. Then I decided on (4 5), since, with one I was already tossing a 5, and I badly wanted to keep my 2 A's for the pegging. You may be shocked to know that a 3 actually did hit the cut, but for those of you who frequent ecribbage, maybe this does not come as that much of a shock, either!....I wish I could remember how the game went from there, I'm pretty sure I won but needless to say I was in for a wild adventure...lol
Jazzselke
1817 votes

Joined: March 2009

   
Monday 9:04 AM
Like the triple nickels also. Deuces no bargain but better than 45 IMO.
Gougie00
4669 votes

Joined: March 2008

   
Monday 9:18 AM
Looking for a 3, but a 3 helps 2245 as well. Not tossing a 45 in the other guy's crib. Lead a 2.
warquaker
202 votes

Joined: July 2020

   
Monday 1:42 PM
Colvert was fearless in giving up points in order to keep points at the start of the game when not having the advantage of first crib: so i threw 45.
Coeurdelion
4584 votes

Joined: October 2007

   
Monday 5:09 PM
I think it's probably between A-A-4-5 (2-2) and A-A-2-2 (4-5):

A-A-4-5: 2pts - 6½pts (Schell: 6.38) = -4½pts

A-A-2-2: 4pts - 7¼pts (Schell: 7.26) = -3¼pts

Potential:

A-A-4-5: Improves with AA, 3333, 444, 555, 6666, 8888, 9999 + 16xXs = 40 cuts = 40/46 = 87.0% up to 5/6/7/8pts with AA, 3333, 444, 555, 6666, 9999 + 16xXs = 36 cuts.

A-A-2-2: Improves with AA, 22, 3333, 9999 + 16xXs = 28 cuts = 28/46 = 60.9% up to 8/16pts with AA, 22, 3333 + 16xXs = 24 cuts.

Position:

We're First Pone so will be trying to reach 18pts or more and playing Offense.

Pegging:

I think both hands will peg well but A-A-4-5 is a 4-card magic eleven so I think will peg better.

Summary:

A-A-2-2 is better for starting value by 1¼pts but A-A-4-5 has more cuts for improvement and 36 cuts for 5-8pts compared to 24 cuts for 8/16pts.
HalscribCLX
4322 votes

Joined: February 2008

   
Monday 5:18 PM
At 0-0* playing an Offense strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

_______________Our
Offense___Hand_Pegs__Crib___Total___W9 %____W10 %
A-A-4-5____6.30+2.20+(-5.84)=2.66____24.0____19.9
A-A-2-5____4.83+1.83+(-4.75)=1.91____24.7____21.6
2-2-4-5____5.65+1.87+(-5.66)=1.86____22.2____19.0
A-2-4-5*___4.00+2.17+(-4.35)=1.82____19.9____19.6
A-2-2-5____5.48+1.89+(-5.62)=1.75____36.3____27.7
A-2-2-4____5.52+2.09+(-6.09)=1.52____23.5____19.5
A-A-2-2____6.96+1.50+(-7.25)=1.21____23.4____17.2

Offense______L9 %____L10 %
A-A-4-5_______42.4____55.3
A-A-2-5_______38.9____52.1
2-2-4-5_______41.5____55.8
A-2-4-5*______38.0____53.9
A-2-2-5_______41.2____47.2
A-2-2-4_______42.0____55.6
A-A-2-2_______45.9____58.5

A-A-4-5 is best for expected averages by 0.75pt and although A-2-2-5 is very much best for Win %s while A-A-2-5 and A-2H-4-5 are much lower for Loss %s. However as it's at the very beginning of the game I'll decide based on expected averages and select 2-2 to discard.

After the 9 cut I'll lead an A and play Offense:

Lead____________Our Pegging Pts.
A_____________________2.22
4_____________________1.96
5_____________________1.94