August 6, 2022

*** This hand was suggested by joekayak
41*-37  ?
Total votes: 226
5721 votes

Joined: April 2008

Saturday 3:09 AM
Doing a 2-3 to a K-K discard seems to me a more calculated discard here for higher values. Might be able to peg the pair of Kings also. de
Duby86 says: My thinking too !
4547 votes

Joined: November 2008

Saturday 3:24 AM
Choosing offense to include the pegging 2-3-3-K has the edge by well over a point. Potential hand value and the increased pegging value of 2-3-3 far outweigh the larger crib produced by the 2-3 discard. Dealing at hole 41 (2nd street CPZ 43-47) will play on the lead and take any pegs offered.
Eolus619 says: Ras…A Very good lesson about the value of the three components ..hand, crib, pegging…those 250,000 recorded hands are just full of evidence!
Ras2829 says: Just how superior in potential hand value is 2-3-3-K? This gives an idea. Only 6 or 8 does not add value. With 3-K-K-K, A, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, J, Q add nothing.
5097 votes

Joined: March 2008

Saturday 3:24 AM
I tossed KK and kept the potential for a 12 in my hand.
1028 votes

Joined: February 2009

Saturday 3:47 AM
Don’t want to break up the strength of the 233 in my hand
3308 votes

Joined: June 2013

Saturday 3:52 AM
No double run chance any more, but I'm hoping for good things in the crib.
3542 votes

Joined: October 2008

Saturday 4:09 AM
We are the Dealer sitting Three Holes 'shy' of the Second Street Par Hole 44, and our Opponent only needs to score Seven Points to reach that same "target" by completion of this deal.

We have a few choices: Toss (K K), Toss (2 3), Toss (3 3), and Toss (3 K). I believe we can eliminate those last two ideas, and so it's now a matter of choosing between Toss (K K) and Toss (2 3).

This puzzle shows us a very good example of how a player's style can be one that emphasizes Hand Score when we Toss (K K), or one that seeks to boost the Crib after Toss (2 3). However, our real goal in Cribbage is not to maximize either of these in isolation, but instead to maximize our overall total and thus our Win Rate.

Keep (2 3 3 K) will definitely peg better, but today we should probably be asking, "How MUCH better?" That's because a hand with a high PAIR or PAIRS Royal such as Keep (3 K K K) will usually peg a few points very reliably as well, as long as we can hold a PAIR until the end of the pegging.

Toss (2 3) gives us much more potential for GROWTH in our Crib, so when other things look somewhat equal, I am inclined to Toss (2 3). But what purpose will this stronger Crib serve if we get 'pummeled' during the pegging?

Toss (2 3) aims for a better Crib, but it also risks a drubbing during the pegging, and we cannot afford such an occurrence at this Relative Score.

Therefore, let's Toss (K K) today, and retain the King of Spades in our Hand, since it is the only King that "matches" suit with any of our Deuces or Treys.

After the Queen Cut, we have Ten Points in our Hand, with prospects for an average (and perhaps exciting) Crib.

If Pone has a hand construction of mostly higher-ranking cards alongside one or two "Small" Cards, if we unload our Lone King early, we will often be able to peg several holes toward the end of the pegging.

If we do unload our King first, try to follow it up with the Trey of Spades, in order to fake a flush during the pegging. This costs us nothing if we are going to play a Trey anyway, and it may fool our Opponent.
Ras2829 says: Hi JQT: Substantive comments as usual. Just ran a query on Cribbage Prof. The Prof shows 3.09 offensive pegs for 2-3-3-K and 1.70 for 3-K-K-K.
JQT says: Thanks, RAS! Let's examine a pegging scenario that illustrates the Pegging Power of Keep (2 3 3 K) as opposed to Keep (3 K K K). If Pone has (A 6 6 8) v (2 3 3 K), it might proceed: 6 (6) K (16) 6 (22) 3 (25) A (26) 2 (28=3) "go" 3 (31=5), 8 (8-1) and as Dealer, we out-peg Pone, 8-to-1. But after Toss (2 3), with (A 6 6 8) v (3 K K K), now the pegging might instead proceed: 6 (6) K (16) 6 (22) 3 (25) A (26-1), K (10) 8 (18) K (28=1), and Dealer and Pone break even, 1-to-1. While we won't always peg Seven Holes MORE with the better pegging hand, rarely if ever will the inferior pegging hand peg as well as the superior pegging hand.
581 votes

Joined: February 2020

Saturday 4:48 AM
Keeping the 3 and King of spaces to take a flush for a couple of seconds
HfxKen says: *spades*
1011 votes

Joined: August 2019

Saturday 5:14 AM
Which eight points do you want to know about? 2-3 is a powerhouse in the crib, but I don't want to lose out on the much better hand potential and pegging ability that tossing K-K allows. Not a bad cut at all.
254 votes

Joined: October 2021

Saturday 6:18 AM
Ditto. Even if it was their crib. More cuts available, and better pegging cards.
729 votes

Joined: June 2020

Saturday 6:55 AM
Dealer needs offense to arrive at par hole 70 first. The 2-3 discard catches my eye first…. however, the K-K-K doesn’t peg so well imo. Only a six and eight cut miss the keep.
2425 votes

Joined: November 2014

Saturday 7:28 AM
Hmmm. Didn't like the K-K to my crib so figured I can't go wrong with a 2-3. Based on others, 2-3 is wrong here. Oh well.
cwed says: Not wrong--just your choice. And mine!
275 votes

Joined: April 2021

Saturday 10:24 AM
It feels like our collective heads were sharing the same thoughts. 2-3 or K-K to the crib. I felt K-K to the crib left the hand with more potential.
613 votes

Joined: May 2019

Saturday 10:28 AM
Went with the better hand potential. Quite a few cuts for 12.
4997 votes

Joined: October 2007

Saturday 2:03 PM
I think it's a straight choice between 3S-K-K-K (2-3H) and 2-3-3-K (K-K):

3S-K-K-K: 6pts + 6¾pts (Schell: 7.00) = 12¾pts

2-3-3-K: 6pts + 4¾pts (Schell: 4.58) = 10¾pts


3S-K-K-K: Improves with 222, 33, 5555, K = 10 cuts = 10/46 = 21.7% up to 12pts with 222, 5555, K = 8 cuts.

2-3-3-K: Improves with AAAA, 222, 33, 4444, 5555, 7777, 9999 + 13xXs = 38 cuts = 38/46 = 82.6% up to 10/12pts with AAAA, 222, 33, 4444 + 13xXs = 26 cuts.


We're 3pts short of 2nd street positional hole but Pone is 13pts short of where they would like to be. So I'll play Defense.


Playing Defense I think 3-K-K-K will peg better.


3S-K-K-K is better for starting value by 2pts but 2-3-3-K is very much better for cuts for improvement and has 26 cuts for 10/12pts. So I think it will more than catch up the 2pts therefore I'll throw a pair of Ks.
4724 votes

Joined: February 2008

Saturday 2:13 PM
At 41*-37 playing an Optimal strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

Optimal___Hand_Pegs____Crib_Total____W6 %____W7 %
2-3-3-K____9.39+ 0.96 +4.15=14.49____37.8____45.1

Optimal_______L6 %____L7 %

At 41*-37 playing an Optimal strategy for the pegging the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:

Optimal___Hand_Pegs____Crib_Total____W6 %____W7 %
2-3-3-K____9.39+ 0.96 +4.15=14.49____37.8____45.1

Optimal_______L6 %____L7 %

2-3-3-K is better for expected averages by 1.44pts 3S-K-K-K is slightly better for Win %s and it is appreciably lower for Loss %s. Even so as it is fairly early in the game and the difference in expected averages is considerable I'll select K-K to discard.

After the Q cut I'll play Offense to the lead.