March 11, 2025
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Total votes: 302 |
fentesk | Given the score, are you focused more on your hand, or their crib? |
Joined: April 2008 (6754 votes) Tuesday 3:12 AM
To go one step further their current score is the most pressing item. True that twenty score would have been great at what cost even seven points to their crib must put them at ten or less. Just opinion. Eight lead. dec Ras2829 says: Hi dec: You are very modest claiming" just opinion". Would be more accurately stated as "just fact!" dec says: Hi Ras if it was 93 or 97 I might defer opinion. I got a feeling the Hal bot might go with the twelve here. Although has been stated there is an element of what a live game might look like with two particular players.Actually I like to see your edit on this. dec Ras2829 says: Hi dec: Believe any cribbot designed by Hal Mueller (Hal, REX or Cribbage Prof) will choose 2-9 discard in this position, playing SAFE. SallyAnn3 says: RAS, I agree with you about Dan's opinions. I highy value them and find him a very skilled player, especially at end game!
SallyAnn3 says: Dan, will you be in Abington next weekend? Jen and I are coming for the first time to that area. Jen earned her eMaster last night! Rosemarie44 says: Congratulations dec. |
Joined: March 2016 (2151 votes) Tuesday 3:19 AM
I think I will be more concerned with my hand because I am starting with 10 points rather than 5 ponts. Wow - starter card! Am I too risky? Rosemarie44 says: Halscrib doesn't think I am too risky. |
Joined: April 2011 (4416 votes) Tuesday 4:05 AM
I’m not giving up the 5 in this position |
Joined: February 2009 (1558 votes) Tuesday 4:20 AM
Need to balk their crib at their position. |
Joined: January 2019 (1169 votes) Tuesday 4:28 AM
I wasn’t sure if I was throwing caution to the wind, but felt I had to. |
Joined: August 2023 (67 votes) Tuesday 4:51 AM
May be risky to put a 5 in opponent’s crib, but not doing it gives away too many points from hand. There’s also bigger potential to add on to the double run. Ras2829 says: Hi domandcarol: Why be "risky" when you need to deal from 4th Street CPZ (95-99)? Is there a chance you won't be there after counting from hole 94? domandcarol says: Just meant I don’t like tossing a5 to opponent’s crib. I Always feel like I’d be setting up crib for big points. And I’m new to putting my thoughts out in the open and learning more strategies. Ras2829 says: Hi domandcarol: Wonderful!! Value your participation and commend you for broadening your understanding of the game. |
Joined: November 2008 (5485 votes) Tuesday 4:53 AM
N/D needs the deck in 4th Street CPZ (95-99) for upcoming deal. Dealer is one hole shy. That tells n/d what choice to make. Discard 2-9, break the upper 7-8-9 sequence with the 8 lead, get rid of the lone five second card played, and avoid pegs unless extremely SAFE. Combined value favors discarding 2-5, holding 7-8-9-9. No five in crib in this position. Many places on board, would play 7-8-9-9, always so if choosing an offense strategy. goninnygo says: I agree, also I am wondering what your discard would have been yesterday as is was your submitted 'puzzle' and the vote was pretty well split! Thanks! (A,2,5,8,9,K 0*-0) Ras2829 says: Hi goninnygo: Always appreciate your desire to learn and curiosity is the major key to that. Yesterday's discard would have been 8-9. goninnygo says: Thank you, Hope all is well with your health (and family) |
Joined: November 2014 (3306 votes) Tuesday 6:19 AM
Looks like I'm "wrong" today, but 2-5 is expected 6.1 and 2-9 is 4.7. Is a crib difference of 1.4 points worth a hand of +5 points? I say yes. |
Joined: May 2024 (336 votes) Tuesday 6:45 AM
Ditto! Assman says: So...after the fortunate 9 cut I have 17 in my hand that lands me at 111. Which is nice. But still quite far away from 121. In the meantime, before I play another hand, pone will have three hands to get past hole 120. Hence, playing defensively here makes more sense since even with this nice hand we simply can't win if pone has anything over an average cycle. Moreover, if I had thought about it before, we'd really need a 20+ point hand to get us into pegging range and only a 28 point hand would actually win the game for us following this gambit. And I think this hold maxes at 20 points for what it's worth. Thank you Fentesk, for another fantastic puzzle. I learned something. Assman says: It is comforting to see that 82% of y'all did what I did. |
Joined: March 2008 (6070 votes) Tuesday 6:56 AM
Hedging. I wish I knew the 9 would be the starter. |
Joined: June 2013 (4247 votes) Tuesday 6:57 AM
A five point reduction is a large one, but I don't want to give my 5 card away here. 9 lead since there's only one left. |
Joined: March 2020 (1164 votes) Tuesday 7:10 AM
I went for a big hit as I don't consider 2-5 to be risky. Playing for the win.
Rosemarie44 says: Congratulations Sally. We are in the minority with today's hand. SallyAnn3 says: Yes, but at least we got the cut, and probably not much in the crib. I'm used to being in the minority lol Rosemarie44 says: Halscrib doesn't think we are too risky! |
Joined: June 2020 (1661 votes) Tuesday 7:13 AM
My view on this is i am counting 2nd next hand ..so if my opponent is then counting from 111+ first that is not good. Eolus619 says: And a PSA …last night was a very successful night for three DCHers. Sally won Gold in her ACC ecrib lounge and dec earned Bronze in the same. Also..new commenter , JJx7fan earned her ACC ecrib emaster award last night. 👏👏👏 Eolus619 says: AND..Mike..AKA..Inushtuk1..Ras posted his answer above about his discard from yesterday’s puzzle. “ Yesterday's discard would have been 8-9.”..I am not sure if we picked his discard or he picked OUR discard 💥🤔..His answer happens to be the 5% of the time the small hand and sacrifice rules do not apply. When someone has been playing cribbage for 80+ years & his success has landed him in the ACC Hall of Fame & he also confesses to having a “convoluted” cribbage mind you realize he has an almost endless supply of these “ gems” that confound & educate us. Glad to see you posting again Ras👏❤️ SallyAnn3 says: Thanks, Bruce---and you were my only loss, by 10 points. Turns out I don't get the ACC win, though, and the gold player in the other room beat me by7 spread points JJx7fan says: Thank you!! :) |
Joined: July 2017 (593 votes) Tuesday 7:33 AM
I think in most cases the conservative approach here will win more often than not. I am also hearing the echoes of Jesse Jarrel....."need or greed". |
Joined: May 2019 (784 votes) Tuesday 9:53 AM
Not giving them a five here unless a cut will put me out. |
Joined: October 2008 (4416 votes) Tuesday 10:05 AM
We've got to focus 95% of our energy on the Enemy Crib today, since we are already in a very good position on the board. Here is an example playout:
(94-94*) (5s 7s 8d 9d) (2c 9h) vs (6h 7h 8d Qs) (5d Ks) Qd Peg: 8 (8) 7 (15=2) 7 (22-2) 8 (30=1), 5 (5) Q (15=2) 9 (24) 6 (30=1), (96-100). We cannot enter into a Run during the pegging, so we risk a PAIR. Leading the 5 Card during the final volley of pegging restricts the pegging done by the Dealer to Two Points, because we don't want to risk that the Dealer holds cards that could form a Run, such as 3-4, 4-6, or 6-7. Pone = 7, Dealer = 7, Crib = 4, (103-111). (103*-111) (Ad 2h 3d 4d) (5h 6c) vs (6s 9c Js Jh) (7c Qh) 3c Peg: J (10) 2 (12) 6 (18) A (19) J (29-1), 3 (3) 9 (12) 4 (16=1), (104-112). Again, we have to peg carefully, but we are also forced to have some points in both Hand and Crib, which seems a contradiction. We take a stab at it! Pone = 4, Dealer = 10, Crib = 7, (121-116). It works! 🌻 feralba24 says: I went with the 5 2 crib toss and see my mistake. Can you tell me tell me at what dealer score you might have went with 7 8 9 9 Eolus619 says: hi feralba24.. while you wait for JQT to reply suggest you read dec ..first post of the day …for an opinion on 7-8-9-9 feralba24 says: Thanks Eolus. Pretty small window but understood JQT says: HalscribCLX is "right on the threshold" of allowing the retention of the Double Run today, but a LOT of players will *sense the danger* as hinted at by the program's significantly higher Loss Rate for this decision! After performing dozens of playouts with REX using both choices, I am still inclined to play SAFE today and hold (5 7 8 9), and I'll answer the positional question with this in mind; but I think that most of my analyses will apply, regardless of the answer chosen. In Cribbage, we generally play or assess OUR OWN POSITION FIRST. If I didn't know our Own Score here, I would say that holding onto the Double Run maybe begins to make sense when the Dealer is not yet on Fourth Street, which means Hole 90 or less. Let's tackle some easy positions first: If we were at Hole 106 to Hole 109 and leading, then we shall likely go out at completion of THIS DEAL, so in this case, we would certainly hold the Double Run. And I should HOPE that all players see that as Pone at Hole 116 or higher (and leading), we don't need a Double Run to go out, so we should retain our best pegging Hand, which would probably be (2 7 8 9) and Toss (5 9). Those are the easy cases. Now, back to the REAL GAME and to address the issue being discussed: The first question we should ask ourselves whether Discarding or Pegging in Cribbage is, "Do WE need the Points?" At Hole 94 as Pone, we need only Two Points to reach "par," which by definition means that at exactly Hole 96 as Next Dealer, we shall then have exactly a 50% chance of reaching our next "target" (Hole 121) after our Three Counts (Scoring Pegging, Hand, and Crib as the Dealer, and then scoring our Pegging and Hand as Pone: that, in a nutshell, is Colvert's "Twenty-Six Theory". DeLynn couldn't add, so he was "off" by one, which is a joke that I think he would laugh at, may he Rest In Peace.) Every hole beyond the "target" helps *boost* that initial 50% figure significantly, so it would be *really great* to get to Hole 99 or farther, and (5 7 8 9) will do this nicely with even more after all but Four Cuts (4444), or 42/46 equals 0.913, or greater than 91% of the time! Thus, knowing OUR position on the board allows us to play even more conservatively, since we only need to score Two Points to achieve par, and with (5 7 8 9) we're ALWAYS getting Five Points, and we're even getting MORE over 91% of the time! Note that if we began at a score of say (90-94*), that the Dealer's Score is no longer the "driving factor" that affects our Discard Decision: now we are virtually FORCED to hold (7 8 9 9), and retain the Double Run! Repeated for emphasis: In Cribbage, we generally play or assess OUR OWN POSITION FIRST. The reality is, since we are Pone at Hole 94 in this puzzle, we are probably NOT going to be lacking sufficient points to go out two deals from now MOST OF THE TIME. That allows us to be more conservative with how we judge the threat or danger presented by our Opponent. I hope this helps. 🌿 JQT says: Some players use a "Twenty-Five Theory" for the cycle of Three Counts, but I use Michael Schell's "par" holes of: Hole 18, Hole 44, Hole 70, and Hole 96, so kind of like the Leap Year gets one day inserted every four years to "make the celestial math work," Schell's modulo-26 finds us having to subtract one during the last segment of the game to "make it fit," whereas DeLynn Colvert, in his chapter about the "Cribbage for the Expert: Twenty-Six Theory" in his infamous book, "Play Winning Cribbage" often counted from Hole 95 (so his math was not in any way deficient). 📓 |
Joined: December 2023 (194 votes) Tuesday 10:11 AM
We are in no position to be helping their crib by chucking a 5 in it |
Joined: July 2016 (1754 votes) Tuesday 10:24 AM
Totally focused on their Crib. Not at all disappointed that I missed the 17 point hand. I probably wasn't pegging out anyway even if I had cut for 20. Must keep current Dealer short of 111. See Ras for the lead. |
Joined: December 2023 (72 votes) Tuesday 12:38 PM
Playing it safe here and holding on to the 5. |
Joined: February 2008 (5609 votes) Tuesday 3:36 PM
At 94-94* playing an Optimal strategy for the pegging (cautious offense) the dynamic expected averages and Win/Loss %s are:
________ ________Net Optimal___Hand__Pegs____Crib____Total___W1 %___W2 % 7-8-9-9____12.30+(-1.85)+(-6.35)=4.10____0.4____35.2 5-7-8-9_____7.87+(-1.30)+(-4.46)=2.10____0.0____25.9 Optimal______L1 %___L2 % 7-8-9-9_______2.3____43.6 5-7-8-9_______1.8____36.8 7-8-9-9 is better for expected averages by 2.00pts. It is also very much better for Win %s and although it is much worse for Loss %s because of the risky 2-5 I'll still select the 2-5 to discard. After the 9 cut I'll lead an 8 and play Defense: Lead_________Dealer's Pegging Points 8___________________(-2.19) 7___________________(-2.25) 9___________________(-2.47) |